Very interesting data and thanks much Don.  I would appreciate seeing a
comparison of child abuse and/or use of corporal punishment by parents per
location.  Yes, all behaviors are multi-determined but the evidence is
quite convincing that becoming a violent person starts in the home.

Joan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


> I tried to send this yesterday, but I had exceeded the 3 post limit.
>
> Well, I certainly agree that violent behaviour is multiply determined.
> However, before I started getting concerned about violent media I'd
> look at the statistics comparing the US and Canada in terms of
> Violence. Here is some recent date which compares major US and
> Canadian cities:
>
> Crime Rates - Selected North American Cities
> (per 100,000 population)
>   Cities            Homicides          Robberies
>   Baltimore, MD      43.5                638.5
>   Detroit, MI        42.1                596.2
>   Washington, DC     35.8                552.3
>   Atlanta, GA        25.8                724.6
>   Philadelphia, PA   22.2                657.4
>   Dallas, TX         20.1                607.5
>   Miami, FL          17.9                614.5
>   Chicago, IL        15.5                552.0
>   Minneapolis, MN    14.1                597.5
>   San Francisco, CA  11.6                399.9
>   Boston, MA         10.5                418.6
>   Vancouver, BC      3.0                 149.0
>   Toronto, ON        2.0                 108.5
>   Hamilton, ON       2.0                  39.0
>   Montreal, QC       1.5                 147.5
>   Ottawa, ON         1.5                  88.0
>   Sudbury, ON        1.0                  53.0
>   Guelph, ON         1.0                  60.0
>
> Source: The Geographic Reference Report 2007 (3/2007)
> http://www.2ontario.com/welcome/ooql_602.asp
>
> Given that all of the kids in these cities watch pretty much the same
> TV, the same movies, play the same video games and listen to the same
> Rap music it would seem to me that there are some other factors out
> there that are a lot more worrisome than violent media.
>
> -Don.
>
>
> Don Allen
> Dept. of Psychology
> Langara College
> 100 W. 49th Ave.
> Vancouver, B.C.
> Canada V5Y 2Z6
> Phone: 604-323-5871
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bourgeois, Dr. Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Thursday, March 27, 2008 3:05 pm
> Subject: RE: [tips] Computer games to get cigarette-style health
> warnings - Times Online
> To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)"
> <[email protected]>
>
>> I'd be curious to hear why you think that any single cause of
>> violent behavior, which is obviously multiply determined (as is
>> virtually everything we study), would account for more than 10% of
>> the variance. And as far as the "less than 10% of the variance"
>> criticism, I'll adapt an example from Rosenthal and Rosnow:
>> imagine a design in which a researcher compared kids who played
>> violent vs. nonviolent video games to see whether they became
>> school shooters, and found the following results:
>>
>>                                               nonviolent games
>>      violent games
>> did not become shooters            66
>> 34
>> became shooters                        34
>>     66
>>
>> What percent of the variance do you thnk playing video games
>> accounted for~ If you said 9%, you're right (r = .30). Is this a
>> trivial effect~
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Don Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 5:11 PM
>> To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
>> Subject: Re: [tips] Computer games to get cigarette-style health
>> warnings - Times Online
>>
>>
>> Hi Mark-
>>
>> I just re-read the Carnagey and Anderson  paper and I'm still not
>> impressed. In the Method section re Exp. 2 they say, " The
>> participant also rated the video game on various dimensions
>> (difficult,absorbing,action-packed, arousing, boring, enjoyable,
>> entertaining, exciting, frustrating, fun, involving, stimulating,
>> violent, and addicting)." However in the Results section they
>> merely say, "Note that the effect of violence was obtained even
>> though the violent and nonviolent games were equally arousing and
>> all games were competitive." without providing any data whatever.
>> A strange omission don't you think? Then in Exp. 3 they say,
>> "Also,several video-game ratings (absorbing,
>> boring, enjoyable, entertaining, exciting, fun, involving,
>> stimulating, addicting) predicted aggressive behavior, Fs(1, 134)
>> = 4.75, ps <.05". Doesn't that just make my case?  Even if this
>> one study did stand up it has not (to my knowledge) been
>> replicated by an independent lab. The studies on the Mozart Effect
>> looked good on their own, but replication proved to be a problem.
>>
>> As far as the Anderson and Bushman study; it's just the old
>> "bundle of sticks" argument. Each study may be too weak on its own
>> to prove the case, but if we take them all together then they must
>> constitute a proof. As far as I'm concerned a bunch of weak
>> studies is just that; a bunch of weak studies.
>>
>> More importantly, even if all of Anderson's assertions were true
>> he is still only accounting for less than 10% of the variance. If
>> you are really concerned about violence then focus on important
>> issues like economic disparity and prevelence of handguns.
>>
>> I still remain in the skeptics corner.
>>
>> -Don.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark A. Casteel wrote:
>>
>> Hi Don. For a good study that (in my opinion) satisfies your
>> requirement for a high-action no-violence group, take a look at
>> Carnagey and Anderson (2005). Ps played either a violent version
>> of Carmageddon 2, a version where violence was punished (points
>> were lost for killing people/hitting objects, and a no-violence
>> version (same game) where violence wasn't possible. Aggressive
>> affect, cognition, and behavior all differed in the reward
>> compared to the no-violence group, and aggressive cognition and
>> behavior differed between the reward and the punishment groups.
>>
>> Also, what about the meta-analysis done by Anderson and Bushman
>> (2001), which found no gender diffs and no diffs as a function of
>> experimental vs. correlation studies? Granted, the rs were all in
>> the range of .16-.27, but as the authors note, the average effect
>> size was the same as that between condom use and the prevention of
>> HIV. Do we take that association seriously?
>>
>> -- Mark
>>
>> At 02:06 PM 3/27/2008, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> It's this kind of junk science that really gets my goat. It is
>> highly reminiscent of Frederick Wertham's "Seduction of the
>> Innocent" which set off a frenzy for banning comic books because
>> they were corrupting our children. For those of you who are too
>> young to remember this era you can find a good discussion of it here:
>>
>> http://art-bin.com/art/awertham.html
>>
>> I have reviewed the literature that purports to show a causal link
>> between media violence and violent behaviour in children and I
>> remain highly unimpressed. Most of the studies are correlational
>> and even there the correlations are weak (.20 to .30). The studies
>> that actually attempt to manipulate exposure to violent media are
>> all badly flawed. They merely compare children who watched a
>> violent video (or played a violent video game) with children who
>> watched a non-violent version. What's wrong with that? Well, for
>> one thing the violent media were also action-packed while the non-
>> violent comparitors were dull as dishwater. Since violence and
>> action are confounded in these studies you need a third group
>> (high action-no violence) to determine which component produces
>> the effect. So far, I have been unable to find a properly
>> controlled replicated studies that clearly establishes a causal
>> link. Until I see one I'll remain in the skeptics corner.
>>
>> -Don.
>>
>> Christopher D. Green wrote:
>>
>>
>> Check out this Times (of London) article on British efforts to put
>> warning labels on video games.
>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3628894.ece
>>
>> Chris Green
>> York U.
>> Toronto, Canada
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> To make changes to your subscription contact:
>>
>> Bill Southerly
>> ([EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Don Allen
>> Department of Psychology
>> Langara College
>> Vancouver, B.C., Canada
>> V5Y 2Z6
>>
>> 604-323-5871
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> To make changes to your subscription contact:
>>
>> Bill Southerly
>> ([EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)
>>
>> *********************************
>> Mark A. Casteel, Ph.D.
>> Associate Professor of Psychology
>> Penn State York
>> 1031 Edgecomb Ave.
>> York, PA  17403
>> (717) 771-4028
>> *********************************
>>
>> ---
>> To make changes to your subscription contact:
>>
>> Bill Southerly
>> ([EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)
>>
>>
>> --
>> Don Allen
>> Department of Psychology
>> Langara College
>> Vancouver, B.C., Canada
>> V5Y 2Z6
>>
>> 604-323-5871
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> To make changes to your subscription contact:
>>
>> Bill Southerly ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
>>
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>> To make changes to your subscription contact:
>>
>> Bill Southerly ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
>
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> To make changes to your subscription contact:
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