________________________________________ From: Michael Palij [[email protected]]
On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 14:44:45 -0700, Rick Froman wrote: >In reference to the subject line of this thread, an equally interesting >question is why, in the years from 1974 until the present, >liberals/progressives have not, >along with Sting, "lost their faith in >Science, MP: I may be out on a limb here but it could be the case that people have not lost their "faith in Science" because it works, it can be shown to be valid, and, when used wisely, appear to work miracles. One does have to be on the look out for Dark Lords like Edward Teller and his ilk, especially when they sell snake oil to politicians and the military in the form of the "Strategic Defense Initiative" or, as popularly known, the Star Wars system. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Defense_Initiative RF: (continuing Sting quote: Progress...". After all, as he noted, "I never saw no miracle of science, that didn't go from a blessing to a curse, I never saw no military solution, that didn't >always end up as something worse." MP: It could be that Sting has a very limited experience and knowledge of science. What miracles of science have become curses? Good public health measure? Antibiotics? Preventive medicine? Help me out here. Lab-created viruses that cause AIDS/Zombies/whatever can be excluded. RF: Seriously? Just a brief list of scientific blessing/curses from a liberal perspective would include many military technologies, the least of which would be the Star Wars system which was never seen to be a scientific initiative. Obvious ones would be the use of social scientists to improve torture techniques. Others off the top of my head are pesticides, antibiotics given to cattle, other chemicals in the food supply, food processing (anything other than organic food), use of animals in research, fracking, clean coal, nuclear power, big pharma and virtually any other science that might be associated with a money-making enterprise. In addition, there will be those critiquing science from a postmodern perspective (among which I doubt there are many conservatives). This is an interesting example: http://web.ku.edu/~acudd/phil140-s24/sld007.htm (and following slides). I'm sure other members of the list could easily double this list. RF: I don't think the proper approach to science education is to attempt to inculcate a respect for science. I believe that will come when we give people understanding of how to appropriately understand and critique science. MP: I have heard the same advice coming from single guys about women. RF: Now its my turn to say I have no idea what this means. RF: Science can stand rational critique; a much greater threat to science is to be perceived as being co-opted by those of a particular political persuasion. MP: I actually have no idea what you mean by the statement above. Of course science can stand rational critique -- it is the IRRATIONAL critiques that are a problem, you know, beliefs like the Bible tells us all we need to know about the world (remember the Stephen Colbert question?). Given that most science deniers are from conservatives and Republicans, I think we know who has co-opted the crazy train. For additional perspective on this point, see: http://scienceblogs.com/tfk/2011/06/mooney_revisits_the_republican.php RF: See the list above (not that I am going to say they are on the crazy train -- the point being that there are many cases where liberals would have cause to mistrust scientists. I think the difference in trust of science between liberals and conservatives might just be what the various camps decide to include within the boundaries of science. It wouldn't be hard to come up with a list of scientists and technological innovators that many conservatives could appreciate or with a corresponding list that many liberals would denounce. There will always be irrational or values-based critiques of science from the right and the left. Scientists can only engage with those providing rational critiques. If irrational critiques of science such as postmodernism ever win the day, not just science will be in trouble. The only weapon we have is rationality; we can't sink to the irrational arguments of others. Rick Rick Froman [email protected] --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: [email protected]. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=17042 or send a blank email to leave-17042-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
