See https://twitter.com/wohnjalker/status/915982539747028992

Ø    Great summary! 😊


As a slightly more serious response, I agree that URIs from the OWL namespace 
may be useful even without OWL semantics. owl:imports is clearly useful, and 
even referenced by the SHACL spec. owl:versionInfo and the deprecation 
mechanisms can be useful, but they don't carry OWL semantics. Whether 
owl:DatatypeProperty and owl:ObjectProperty provide value is a matter of 
debate. I believe as long as there are sh:class and sh:datatype or sh:nodeKind 
constraints in place, then there is no need for them. I am not fond of global 
property axioms in general, but that's another topic.

Maybe there is value in going through the ways that people have used OWL so far 
and verify how many of them were really designed for OWL (DL) inferencing. 
Maybe you have examples of axioms in your world, that you could share here so 
that we can see what would be left that isn't covered by SHACL or other non-OWL 
vocabularies.
>well so far the distinction between attributes/datatypeproperties and 
>relationships/objectproperties has proven useful since they in the end say 
>something about intrinsic properties of things and the more role-based 
>extrinsic properties towards other independent things which is a quite basic 
>notion in conceptual modelling not only in LD/SW but in any other earlier 
>modelling system. But always interesting of course to rethink….
> owl:import hopefully obsolete in a future where all is dereferenceable…
>owl:equivalent could be two way rdfs:subClassOf of course
>owl:sameAs is seen as important but has big issues too (is it really sameAs 
>that you want etc. ie what does it mean, don’t you really want a weaker thing; 
>and in CWA can be done via UNA anyway)
> unionOf/intersectionOf but I expect they have counterpart in shacl
> inverse properties
>disjointWith /propertydisjointWith
> So actually main concern is distinction in attributes and relationships (or 
> if you like values and references) in the end…. 😊
Gr michel




Holger

On 6/10/2017 16:49, Bohms, H.M. (Michel) wrote:
Thx Holger, for the argumentation (SoC)!

Just….
I could see a scenario in future where in CWA-area OWL could be fully replaced 
by SHACL (ie retire OWL). Because there are no dependencies as you explain 
below there are certainly no technical restraints for something like that.
But then…..aren’t we losing more that we want? Clearly we want to replace OWA 
Restrictions to SHACL Shapes. But what about eg the distinction in datatype 
properties and object properties and other very useful OWL modelling 
constructs…ie wouldn’t there be a need for an OWL Light or RDFS+ to combine 
cleanly with SHACL then?

Thanks very much for your views again,
Michel



Dr. ir. H.M. (Michel) Böhms
Senior Data Scientist



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From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Holger Knublauch
Sent: woensdag 4 oktober 2017 09:50
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [topbraid-users] owl-shacl question

The pros are that users that don't want/need to use OWL don't have to import 
these axioms, and thus the RDF files that you are producing are more focused - 
think of separation of concerns, which is generally a good engineering 
practice. SHACL doesn't need OWL, OWL doesn't need SHACL, so there is no reason 
to stack them on top of each other. If projects plan ahead they can also more 
easily retire any part of their stack that is no longer needed. Finally, having 
OWL axioms around may create false expectations or confuse the view point from 
a SHACL perspective (although the axioms are technically ignored, users may 
expect inferencing to happen).

Holger


On 4/10/2017 17:28, Bohms, H.M. (Michel) wrote:
Ok, any pros for the new approach (compared to just owl-rdfs/shacl split) very 
welcome,
Gr Michel






Dr. ir. H.M. (Michel) Böhms
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From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Holger Knublauch
Sent: woensdag 4 oktober 2017 09:02
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [topbraid-users] owl-shacl question

Sure, that should work without problems. The suggested split is mostly for new 
projects that are under your control.

Holger

Sent from my iPad

On 4 Oct 2017, at 16:49, Bohms, H.M. (Michel) 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Dear Irene, Holger

In http://spinrdf.org/shacl-and-owl.html it is suggested to have the following 
‘architecture’:

<image002.png>

Would I lose much benefit when I simplify a bit by just having OWL/RDFS (with 
owl/rdfs owa inferencing) on top and (several) SHACL views (with shacl cwa 
validation and inferencing (rule part)) below. (I just mention ‘several’because 
typically there are more validation-views possible working on the same 
conceptual owl-view). Just looking for pros and cons. One of the reasons is 
that in practically all existing ontologies relevant for us do not have the 
split yet in rdfs and owl…just an example: a very recent proposal that I really 
like: https://www.w3.org/TR/owl-time/, is in OWL-DL. I want to directly reuse 
and pref. not split first in a RDFS part and an OWL-DL part.

Thx for your advice here,
Michel




Dr. ir. H.M. (Michel) Böhms
Senior Data Scientist





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