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IMO, there's no such thing as a clear. In the entire history of
Scientology, no one has demonstrated a stable clear state, let alone the
god-like powers of an OT.
The reason is that clear is an absolute ideal, a utopia. All ideologies
and fundamentalist religions revolve around an urgent and unending quest
for an unattainable utopia. Clear, Nirvana, Ascension, the Rapture, a
worker's paradise, a perfectly balanced free market, none of these exist
in the real world, and I doubt they ever could. They are ideas kept
alive by faith rather than discovered through observation. You may as
well try to find Santa Claus.
Hubbard postulated the existence of clear long before he ever declared
someone clear, and spent the rest of his research days trying to prove
it wasn't nonsense.
That's not to say some of his methods were not helpful. But as with most
self-help ideologies, the biggest wins are made on the lowest levels.
I suspect that there is a point where the greatest possible gains have
been made, and in most ideological systems that point arrives far sooner
than anyone cares to acknowledge. After that, a person's participation
is maintained by the carrot on the stick, fanaticism, and faith.
That's why all these systems discourage doubt and objective criticism.
On 7/1/2012 5:09 PM, David M. Pelly wrote:
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Pete,
I also tend to be very left brained, reason, logic, scientific minded and
engineering oriented.
(As a matter of fact, anything other than using reason to figure out and
understand something is at least intellectual ineptness or out right
intellectual dishonesty or a form of insanity.
People who do say they are right brained, are actually attempting to explain
or justify their state of insanity, their inability to understand logic, or
in other words understand common sense.
They call themselves the artsy types, which btw is mostly bullshit. They are
only arguing to defend their ignorance or and insanity. )
In regards to eastern stuff;
You put the word to how I found eastern spirituality and eastern philosophy
that I could not easily find. (confusing)
(and I would now add, non problem solving, more of a sedative than anything
else, more so than other stuff I was into before scn)
But I found Dianetics very clear and well written. I read it seven or eight
times. It was a breath of fresh air for me.
I want to read it again, but don't have enough time. (One of my next goals is
to learn to photo read. That is to take an optic mental picture snapshot of a
page and comprehend it in that time. ) :)
Although, at first, I did have a hard time understanding the book;
Dianetics, the modern science of mental health.
I would read a few pages and bog down, then go back and restart. I did this
about three times, each time getting further into the book, then it began to
flow and I could not put it down. I was overwhelmed with what Hubbard
discovered. It began to put everything else I read prior into alignment and
become useful.
(Thanks to someone I met some 10 yrs earlier who told me that it is good to
read stuff that one cannot understand. But there is a limit to everything, as
I discovered with TROM.)
BTW>>> I had a short lived, very nice and relieving release from insanity,
from my dianetics demo. My first session. That win sold me on the stuff. It also saved
my life.
Now contrary to that...and what you say....Pete.....
I find Dennis' writing extremely confusing, poorly written, way to steep of
a gradient, and has many false and misleading datums and even at least one
lie.
Many ex scientologists ( a few very competent ones and very knowledgeable ones,
who came before us in TROM had very similar problems, as I and others do,
and some were when Dennis was still alive, and they personally knew him and
asked him to explain problems with TROM, ending up in futility, and got
totally frustrated with him and totally pissed off, sometimes using very
unbecoming, colorful vulgar words to describe him, and throw TROM out the
window.
(In Dennis' eulogy, his wife described him as a saint. I shudder and squirm
when I read that. I surely sense something wrong with that.)
So I can't imagine how you could be honest in your espousing viewpoint on TROM
and I therefore can only think you are very misleading.
I can't imagine how your viewpoint on TROM could be as you say, from the
beginning, or anywhere up until more recently, you made the postulate to be the
TROM site or list leader or facilitator or keeper, or what ever you want to
call the position, or effort, and gather up and organize and transcribe and
post or publish the small mountain of tangled TROM data, as you have done on
the TROM help site.
My point is that if you do indeed understand it, it came as a result of extra
ordinary and extended effort.
(At the same time, I often get the sense and see indicators, that you are not
doing as well as you claim with TROM.
Why is that?
A few days ago, your posts were totally incoherent and not worth responding
to. That is why I did not respond to them. I did not know what to say, or how
to deal with it.)
Futhermore: I am not aware of any person completing TROM and reaching the state
that Dennis claims (other than Slim, of which I will address later).
(I highly doubt that even Dennis himself reached that state.)
Further more you have to be retired and on adequate pension, with little or
nothing else to do, to be able to devote that much time and effort to the TROM
cause.
Few people have that luxury.
Slim,
You are the only one that claims to have reached that illusive state.
But you also are not exactly honest and or forthcoming (therefore misleading)
on how you got to have the success you claim to have.
(At the same time, I suspect that there could be some spontaneous clearing
factor or other contributing factor involved. )
At least a few mitigating factors that you do not acknowledge on the list are:
1. You have done a considerable amount of the Scientology bridge and the
considerable auditing that goes with it, many yrs ago.
Which evidently still left you with a desire for more clearing, the
motivating factor to seek out something else and finding TROM.
(But you had to be close to clear from scn processing, before you go to TROM.
TROM appears to be like the finishing carpenters do to work that the rough
carpenters do on their construction projects, like houses.
( Qualifier: I know from my own brief experience, that scientology is at least
very good stuff, ( to the best of my knowledge, it is the best on the planet,
on the subject of clearing and spiritual healing) as far as it goes, but also
often does not go far enough. It is not a complete subject, as many claim. )
2. You tried to do TROM over ten yrs ago and could not understand it
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