************* The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] ************ Hi You need to sign your emails so we know who we are talking to.
I see a couple of points from what you have said. 1. You are getting change with the processes you are running. You are getting lots of change in the yawning etc that you are reporting. The processes are working and you need to run them some more till they cease to produce change. 2. You are frustrated because you have not studied the books to the point where you understand what will result from achieving the goal of eliminating your reactive mind. 3. You will not get a permanently floating needle. That would be some continuously no games euphoric condition. God was in this state before he created this universe and the games being played in it but no one is continuously in that state now. In a voluntary games condition you will see interesting things to do and have and people to interact with and you will rise and fall on the tone scale as is appropriate with playing voluntary games. When you are offered a game where another wants to make you a victim you will recognize exactly what the game is because of the auditing you have done on all the games you have played and will walk away as you are not interested in being a victim. When you are playing games in a community and see a fellow player having trouble you will help them to get back to succeeding at the game so you can both continue to have fun. The objective of TROM is to see and recognize the games that are being played by others and by you and making voluntary decisions to play or not play these games with these other terminals as you like. So, relax take a deep breath an continue working at RI and timebreaking. Study the Level 5 chart and puzzle out all the games you have played in your past where: you forced something on others or took something from others or prevented others from taking things from you or prevented others from forcing things on you. It is a very interesting education. You will occasionally have a charged incident to run but most of the time you will just recognize the games being played in your past and let them go. Hope this helps. Keep on TROMing Pete McLaughlin Sent from my iPad > On Mar 13, 2016, at 6:53 PM, The Resolution of Mind list > <[email protected]> wrote: > > ************* > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > ************ > Dear TROMmers, > > Short version: > This email will contain my experience with running TROM for approximately 100 > hours on level 2. > I did not have any big gains, no ability returned, but had an awful lot of > yawning an suffering. > The only ability is that I now remember a bunch of previous lives (mostly > thanks to scientology auditing) > > Background and Short History: > I was in the church for a about two years, 20 years ago , but it was just > dianetics auditing. > Being an experimenter type, I was quickly declared and thrown out as a > suppressive person. > 11 years ago I found TROM, the theory was fascinating. It is simple and > intuitive, so I > started on level 2. Soon I realized I need an e-meter to really be able to > tell if there is a change, > so I bought one, and did some sessions, had a big win, but then it was not > working, so I give up after maybe 10-20 hours. > 2 years ago I visited an ex scientology auditor, and started on the bridge, I > did the TR's and objectives, > ARC straightwire, Grade 0 and Grade 1 with him (could not continue, moved to > another city) and also did 50 hours of > TROM with him on level 2. After that I have decided I will do 50 hours of > TROM this year. > So I will tell you my different experiences with TROM in the following > sections. > > First Experiments > After reading the book I rushed to practice. Of course being inside > scientology I understood level 2 as a > method to run charged or heavy or uncomfortable events. Well I did not feel > much change. Sometimes > I felt nervous, but could not decide weather there was change while running > the event or not. > After I gave up for a little bit -because I could not assess change- I > realized I need an e-meter, > because that will measure change. So I bought one, and restarted > enthusiastically, found a few charged events > had a few wins, it was great. But soon I run out of events. The meter did not > move any more. > It was not a floating needle as Dennis described, it was just sluggish > mostly, but nothing > to run anymore ... so as I mentioned before, it did not work as advertised. I > gave up for the > next 10 years. > > Scientology auditing > I had some free time in my life, so I had the idea, to go try scientology > auditing in the freezone. > I did the TR's and objectives, ARC straightwire, Grade 0 and Grade 1. Well > maybe I am in terrible > case maybe not. According to my auditor I am considered an average case, with > not much trauma > in my life. So level 2 should have worked for me according to Dennis, but it > did not! > And I tell you while it was most probably later started to work (my idea and > Dennis also speaks about this) > Every person wanting to go up the scientology bridge have to do TR's and > objectives. > The objectives part contains processes called CCH and there are 10 of them. > One of them > called the Book and Bottle. Well if you do not know what it is, I give you an > idea here, > at least this is how my auditor run it on me. You walk to a bottle on one > side of the room > tell it's weight, color, then you are requested to walk to a book on the > other side of the > room and tell it's color and weight. I started around 8 a.m. and I had to do > it until > around 18 o'clock. You just cannot imagine how hard is to survive that for 10 > hours. > And the rest of the CCH is not easier by any means. I believe the CCH > processes broke my case, > because very soon after them I tried TROM again, as you can see in the next > section, but > this time it worked, well if you call the worst repeated experience of your > life working :-) > > > TROM with an auditor > I decided to do TROM with an auditor because I was unable to do it alone, and > after 10 years of struggling, I came > to the conclusion that I need help with this, whatever Dennis Stephens says. > Also I did not have that much > experience with auditing in general, the rigorous process, and the willpower > it needed. > We always did 1 hour sessions. After 1 hour I was so tired, that I had to go > home to sleep. > So that 50 hours of auditing took a long time to complete (2 months almost > every day) > (of course we did try longer sessions like 90 minutes, but the few times we > did, made me so tired, that I was totally exhausted) > I took events from my current life, pick an item from them (like a chair, a > friend) and compared them with objects in present time. > The effect? From a 60 minutes session, I was yawning at least 50 minutes. By > that I mean that > my mouth was open for 50 minutes and closed for 10 minutes. So one yawn > usually takes a minute. > Five minutes after starting, my nose started to run, so one hour usually > resulted in 5 wet handkerchiefs. > I did not run any important or charged event from my life. Just the normal, > not charged ones. > After about 45 hours the yawning started to decrease on the events. Then one > day my auditor asked me if I felt > anything different, (I did not), because the needle characteristic on the > e-meter changed, he said. > Well next day I found out, what he meant. The yawning run out, and I go so > angry I could trash the place, and > beat up my auditor. Then quickly I reached boredom. We did this a few times, > It all happened within one hour: > 10-15 minutes yawning, a little anger, boredom, and then nothing, just did > TROM until the 1 hour finished. > So I decided that maybe from here, I can do it alone. > > TROM alone > I started to do level 2 on charged events, alone, with my e-meter, 1 hour > sessions. > The yawning returned to span 90% of the time again. > But after about 15 hours I run out of events to process. Whatever I picked > up, just was boring, and did not > have any effect on the e-meter. Did I reach the end of level 2? I was hoping, > but I still could not place, the then > next to the now. I mean sometimes yes, but it took too much effort, and only > could do it after I run out the charge, > and even then it was not perfect. So I definitely did not finish level 2, but > could not find anything that would produce > change (noticeable by myself on myself, or on the e-meter). WTF should I do > now? So I went to amazon, because > by this time, the 6 TROM books were available, and I bought them all, and > read them. Nothing! > What the hell should Ii run in the session then? > > > Dream TROM > In desperation, I came up with the idea to run my dreams on level 2. The idea > was so stupid, that I went to my auditor > to ask his advice, and to my astonishment, he said, that I should go ahead > and do it, because they contain many > unconscious events, probably even events from past lives. > So I did it. Every morning I wrote down my dreams (usually only one I can > remember) and during the day I run it on > level 2. Boy was I in trouble! For the next 20 hours I had to reduce my > session time to 30 minutes. > It was awful, my jaw hurt from the yawning, an I was so tired, that many > times after 30 minutes of auditing I just > lay down in my bed, and fall asleep immediately. I did not matter, if I just > woke up from a whole night of sleep, > after I did a session, I had to go back to sleep again. It took almost 2 > months to do that 20 hours of auditing, > which is ridiculous, and it hurt me a lot. And how it worked is even worse. I > had a dream, I picked a chair > from it and run it for 30 minutes, next day I picked the table that was next > to the chair in the same dream, that also > give me 30 minutes yawning. Finishing level 2 seemed impossible. > Nothing last forever, and one day my dream run out (no yawning, no e-meter > needle movement) in 15 minutes, > and whatever other objects or persons I took from the same dream, the yawning > did not return. > Next day the same happened. WTF should I do now? Luckily the same day I was > dreaming a very strange dream. > I was in the second word war running from the Germans, captured, and > everything looked like in those old war movies. > I run it with TROM, it run out, and then -thinking about past lives- I asked > myself did I have an earlier similar event? > So I had a vague memory of being beaten, I run it, and it got cleaner, I was > beaten in ancient Egypt. I run this > incident for 2x30 minutes until no change (no yawning, and no emeter movement) > > Past life TROM > I travelled to my auditor, and begged him to help me find past lives, and > even though I just got until grade 1, I managed > to push him to run some new era dianetics on me. He told me, he will try to > run it, it will either work, and then we > continue or not run at all, then he can not help me but return to grade 1. We > started out with my Egyptian incident, > and run with scientology auditing, about 5 past life incidents come up in > about 6 hours of auditing. If you know how New Era Dianetics > works, you know, that it will not erase incidents, just the oldest one. So > you see some incident, and the moment you > can remember an earlier incident, you are requested to move to the earlier > one, leaving the original unhandled (as I understand it) > So I went back home, and took all those unfinished incidents, and run TROM on > them. One incident usually run for 60-90 minutes! > By this time I could increase my session time back to 60 minutes. So when I > finished all the incidents I found with my auditor > I was back to square one: I had nothing to audit. And I can tell you this > with certainty: It is not possible to recall past lives > with TROM, not at the beginning at least. The reason it worked with the > scientology auditor was that I closed my eyes the > whole time, so I tried the same during TROM sessions: I did not compare > anything, I did not open my eyes, I just went > through the event a few times (with a lot of yawning of course) and after > maybe 15-30 minutes I could open my eyes, > and start to do TROM on those objects/persons (with more yawning) which by > that time I could clearly recall. > I just cannot access past lives with my eyes open, most of the time I just > have a feeling, or very faint part of a picture > and when I go over and over again, more details come up, maybe later .... > > > My Conclusions > - TROM is not a mature technology. It was invented by one man, and as I > understand it very few people provided feedback. > Therefore it worked for one man, who had very little case to begin with, so > it is rather untested, and most certainly will not work for everybody. > - It is impossible to understand TROM without really understanding > scientology. Dennis does not stress this, but > the guy lived his entire life inside or around scientology. It was like > breathing to him, he did the original Saint Hill Special > Briefing Course, but for an outsider? > - No timeframe, no statistics. This is the worst in my view. My scientology > auditor tells me, that making a clear takes > usually 450 hours of auditing. Nowhere in TROM did I see the number of > hours. When I started out, I was thinking, that > level 2 will take 10-20 hours to complete. Now I have about 50 hours of > dianetics, 200 hours of scientology auditing > and 100 hours of TROM and hey I just found a few past lives, of which I am > sure there are thousands. THOUSANDS. > How much time do you think it will take to run out with TROM like 1000 > lifetimes, when running one life took me > 350 hours? Maybe much less. I am just wenting my anger... > - My auditor told me that an OT VIII needs around 2500 hours of auditing from > zero to OT VIII. > OT VII alone takes 1500 hours, so the rest of the bridge takes about 1000 > hours. > Based on that number, now I see that just to do 1000 hours requires extreme > dedication. If I can do 1 hour every day, > which is of course impossible, so lets just go with 300 hours a year. Let's > say I need 600 more hours of level 2, and maybe > 600 level 3. That would be 4 YEARS of very hard, very dedicated work. Am I > up for that? Well I am not sure. > > My 2 cents, which I would add to TROM based on my experience > So OT VIII takes 2500 hours, deduct 1500 for OT VII, because Dennis does not > believes in Body Thetans/Entities which OT VII > is all about, that would leave us 1000 hours of auditing. Dennis says by > completing level 3 you are above OT VIII. > You did not just think that TROM is so much more effective than scientology > auditing, and therefore needs less time? > According to my experience, they are on pair, judging by the effects (e.g. > yawning) they have on me. So to be above OT VIII > with a permanent floating needle, well let's just say that will take 500 > extra hours of auditing. So 1000 + 500 = 1500 hours. > Well that's just a total guesswork, but what matters to me, is that it gives > me rough estimates of the magnitudes involved: > - You did 10 hours on level 2,3 and declared yourself finished, well haha, I > think this is self delusion. > - You did 100 hours on level 2,3 and declared yourself finished, go visit an > auditor, and check your permanent floating needle > I can almost guarantee you, you will even fail the clear certainty test. > 100 hours is nothing. Even a clear takes 450 hours. > - You did several hundreds of hours on level 2,3 Please, tell me about your > experience. > - How many past lives did you handle with level 2,3? You did not seriously > believe that by running this life, you erased > your bank? This life is very pleasant and comfortable for most people > today. But you lived 1000 of lives before. > Let's say you run x charge of this life, what about the other 1000x? And we > did not even go into actual gpm's and the like. > - There is only so much charge you can erase in this life, it is not even 0.1 > percent of the charge on your whole time track. > Did you run that out? Where does Dennis mentions this? Well if you can read > between the lines, or read scientology stuff... > It takes in my estimates at least 1500 hours to finish level 2 and 3, to be > above OT VIII, with a permanent floating needle. > So in my opinion, if you want to do TROM: > -Go to an auditor and at least finish TR's and objectives, and ARC > staightwire. (and yes I could easily run RI and level 2 before I did) > -Buy an e-meter, without that you are blind (yawning was a good indication in > the last 100 hours, but it just gives me confidence) > -Prepare for years of suffering every day > -Stack up on willpower. Level 2 is horrible. Could you hurt yourself for > years, every single day? > -I am not even sure you can do this alone, I mean how an ordinary man have > such kind of willpower? > That's the whole reason scientology works with the auditor preclear model. > Because the auditor's and yours combined > analytical power is greater than your reactive mind's power. > -Stack up on higher level scientology books (1950-1965), I do not think the > TROM books are enough, to understand all this. > I mean Dennis just mentions past lifes in passing, but if you read early > scientology stuff, you will see that > most charge is not on the current life > > > Whining > Currently my total auditing time is 350 hours, so maybe from tomorrow I will > run out 1 whole past life every day, and in 3 > years I will finish. Maybe tomorrow, I will blow all my charges, and will get > that floating needle. I will tell you about it then. > You see the problem is that when I set a goal, an I give it up, then I have > lost a game with my reactive mind, therefore getting > down in the downward spiral. And I decided to reach level 3 almost 11 years > ago, and I am nowhere near, > and most probably I will give up, because Dennis Stephens could not write a > fucking number (hours) in his books. > Well it was easy for him, he had an easy case to run, but me mere mortal? > What about me? > If I open the TROM book I could realistically make a decision to start, if he > would just wirte 1000 hours for level 2. > Because in that case I would not have set my goal for sure, knowing that I do > not have the kind of will necessary for this. > > Summary > In my opinion TROM is for people like Dennis: OT's from the 1950's and 1960's > or OT VIII's of today. > They have the background knowledge necessary, a reactive mind cleared and > blasted to pieces by hundreds of hours of auditing > and the increased determination coming with that kind of case. For anybody > else it is like a minefield, > of which 95% percent of the people doesn't even realize it is a minefield, > because they give up sooner than realizing it > or declare themselves finished before even stepping on it. > Yes everybody can do it - I have to agree - but how many people have that > kind of willpower out of 100? > > The Future > Life takes us away from our goals, have to manage a thousand things. Have to > work, care with the family, sports, hobbies, etc. > I am not the kind of guy, who reads about TROM, runs it for an hour and then > post it on facebook or an email list, > and then looks for something else. I like to do things thoroughly. > Will I give up? Most probably I will at some point. Why should I continue? To > yawn for 1000 hours more for 3-4 years? > Maybe I cannot spend 1 hour every day, so maybe it would take 10 years of > yawning. > Yeah, that’s a great gain, yawn every day for 3 years is just such a great > experience. > > > Anyway I run out of my frustration for this year :-) > Would be very happy to get some feedback from you guys. > It would make me even happier if you would tell me, how much time did you > invest in each level? > and how many of you did actually check if they had the kind of floating > needle Dennis describes? > > > Kind Regards from some idiot who started TROM a very long time ago and got > nowhere with it.... yet > > > PS: > I wrote this email in October 2015 when my frustration reached it's peek, and > then put it away to think about it. > Now I re-read it, and my opinion did not change much. > Maybe it's my case? Maybe I am so terribly aberrated that it works easily for > everybody except me? > It is of course another possibility, the one I don't believe in right now. > I just cannot accept the fact that some of you achieved level 2 and 3 in > 20-50 hours. > TROM works of course, as advertised, judging from my 100 hours of yawning. > I'm just saying that it's is a totally immature and untested technic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TROM mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom _______________________________________________ TROM mailing list [email protected] http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
