DaveH wrote: > Do you understand 'logic' from a mathematical standpoint, > Glenn? The fact that the 2 statements: BELIEF + BAPTISM > = SALVATION, and NO BELIEF = NO SALVATION > does NOT logically mean that FAITH --- (minus) BAPTISM > = SALVATION, which is the way you are interpreting the > passage. Jesus said belief AND baptism is needed for salvation.
Let's consider the logic for a moment of this passage in Mark 16. Belief + Baptism = Salvation. Does this mean that ONLY Belief + Baptism = Salvation? Of course not. You brought up math, so let me give you some mathematical examples. 1 + 3 = 4. Ok, we agree, right? But also, 2 + 2 = 4. And, 1 + 5 + -2 = 4. And, 4 + 0 = 4. Let me give you a practical example. Suppose I tell you that a car + gas = visiting the patient in the hospital. Now does that mean that this is the only way to visit the patient in the hospital? Do I mean to communicate that only if you have gas can you visit the patient in the hospital? Of course not. So the error in logic is on your part for assuming that Mark 16 makes baptism necessary for salvation. Baptism is part of God's plan for bringing people into salvation, but it does not mean that baptism is absolutely necessary. DaveH wrote: > Assuming that he was implying that baptism is not necessary for salvation is logically invalid. The idea that baptism is not necessary is clearly seen in Scripture. We covered this before. It is not an assumption from Mark 16, but a conclusion drawn from other passages of Scripture which show people being saved before being baptized. Part of the disagreement between us might be in how we define salvation differently. You have talked about salvation only in terms of the resurrection. We speak of salvation as being something that happens now, before the resurrection. For us, being saved means that a person enters the kingdom of God now while alive on this earth. The Scriptures say that the kingdom of God is within you, and that it is righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost. This is called salvation, being set free from sin, and having eternal life within us. We believe that this is what Jesus had in mind when he said, "he that believeth and is baptized will be saved." Jesus said that the world cannot receive the Spirit of truth. So, one must be born again, be saved, before he can receive the Holy Spirit. Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; WHOM THE WORLD CANNOT RECEIVE, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. Now we observe in the book of Acts that the household of Cornelius received the Holy Spirit BEFORE being baptized. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. (Act 10:44-48) So, clearly, from these other passages of Scripture, we see that it is possible for men to be saved WITHOUT water baptism. These men and women were saved first, and then received water baptism. This does not contradict the passage in Mark 16 when you understand that Jesus was not being exclusive and saying that ONLY those who believe and are baptized will be saved. He simply said that those who believe and are baptized will be saved, but that does not preclude the Cornelius household from being saved before baptism. Peace be with you. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
