Re: [TruthTalk] Growth Rate

[Dave]

DAVEH:  Michael.......In my last post, I think I was replying to one of your posts, but forgot who wrote it and instead conversed with DanG instead.  My apologies to both you fellas.
 

michael douglas wrote:

 

 DAVEH:  As I said before, when Jeff made that comment, it caused me to wince.  I think Jeff responded in error, unless he was thinking along the lines I just mentioned.  I can't imagine any LDS person from the bottom (Jeff) to the top (Pres Hinckley) not believing in the virgin birth, death and resurrection of Jesus.   That is the way I remember you defining "Christian", and that is doctrine that LDS theology subscribes to.

 He then backed down, maybe.  THIS MORMON JESUS BEING THE BROTHER OF SATAN IS SUSPECT AT THE VERY LEAST.

DAVEH:  I explained that relative to the pre-mortal existence.  I understand you don't believe it.  In fact, you said something to the effect that you really don't care about any pre-mortal existence, if I remember correctly.  It is that lack of interest in something that is so important which I find so interesting.  That is why I am in TT.....to find out why Protestants would ignore such an important part of the gospel and their eternal progression.

This is where you don't understand Christians.  All Christians preach the same gospel.  The gospel is the death, buriel, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.  This is where we all agree.

DAVEH:  Then you would consider LDS folks to be Christian too, since we believe the such!?!?!?!?!?

Michael D:  Dave H, and Glenn,  on a point of interest ... If someone said he believed in Jesus who was born of a virgin, died and resurrected, but was fathered by a super-evolved ape, and is/was himself one, would that qualify as the same Jesus as Christians, and LDSers, believe in?

DAVEH:  No to both questions.

Michael D: Well, the conclusion is obvious, I am sure. The Jesus LDS folks believe in was created by the Father, who was once a man (haven't gotten a definitive answer from Dave H. yet as to how He became such.

DAVEH:  I don't have answers for all questions.  On this one, anything I would say would be pure speculation on my part, since I don't know of any official LDS theology that explains it.

Of course, there was a non-LDS offering recently  {Perry, I think} that summarized the LDS teaching thus: God, the Father of Jesus, resulted from an infinite regression of Gods... Is that accurate LDS Dave H???

DAVEH:  I have heard some folks theorize such, but I know of no definitive doctrines from the Church that say such.

If not, can you offer fruther enlightenment?)

DAVEH:  Anything I would say about it would be speculative.

 and is now an exalted man: as is the Son whom He created,

DAVEH:  Correct.

who was an angel,

DAVEH:  The FIRSTBORN of all our Father's creations in the pre-mortal existence.

the brother of satan,

DAVEH:  Lucifer was another of our Heavenly Father's spirit creations, who became disobedient in the pre-mortal existence.

who became a mortal man, and has now achieved the state of exalted man, thus making him a God like His Father.

DAVEH:  He was a deity before his birth into this world, and he became exalted after he left this world.

And He is working to make us all exalted men , thus making us

DAVEH:  Rather than "thus making us", it would be more appropriate to say "thus making it possible for us"

 Gods like Him and His Father. Did I get that right, Dave H?

DAVEH:  Yes, that is pretty close to the way I understand the "plan of salvation".

Contrastingly, Born-again Christians believe that God the Father is eternal:

having no beginning nor ending, He alwasy was God and never was anything else. Jesus is also eternal, having no beginning, nor ending. Was never an angelic being, but always divine, was the creator of satan, and all other things that ever came into being. He took on human flesh an thus becoming a man, and having been glorified, is now Lord of all creation, Not just by virtue of creation anymore, but by virtue of redemption and reconciliation.

The Mormon Jesus, and the Jesus of Born-again Christians share great diffeerences which set them eternities apart from each other.

DAVEH:  So Michael.......you don't believe Jesus is "the firstborn of every creature"?

    As for the differences between our "" and your "Jesus of Born-again Christians", our Lord (Jesus) was born of a virgin, died and was resurrected and then exalted to be by his Father's side.  Not only did he create this world, but he atoned for our sins and made it possible for us to live again.  THAT is our "Mormon Jesus".
 

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Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
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