� Peter Peterson wrote:
> Dear Dave, > � I agree personaly with much of what you said, but a couple of things > disturb me...... > � I believe that we are saved by grace BEFORE- not after we "do all we can > do.." DAVEH:� Hmmmmm........OK.....I see that.� But perhaps in a different perspective.� The Lord's sacrifice 'saved' us in 2 distinct ways BEFORE we were even born.�� First, by virtue of his resurrection we will all be resurrected and bridge that chasm that separates the dead from the living.� IOW, we will reside in the post-mortal existence with a physical body after our resurrection due to Jesus' resurrection.� Had Jesus not 'saved' us in that sense prior to our birth, we would have no option to become like our Heavenly Father. ��� Second........Yes, Jesus' atoning sacrifice happened prior to our covenants being made.� At least that's as it appears on the surface.� From my perspective though, our covenants with Jesus did not necessarily begin in our lifetime.� Prior to this mortal life, I believe we all lived with our Lord in a pre-mortal existence and while there may have made covenants that fore-ordained (or perhaps 'pre-destinated' to the way some might think of it) our lives in mortality.� Entering covenants in mortality (like baptism) are just an extension (so to speak) of our pre-mortal covenants. ��� The sacrifices (by the Israelites) made prior to the advent of Christ would not in themselves 'save' them.� They were covenantal rites that symbolized the Lords impending acts of mercy and grace.� Without performing those rites, they would have been neglecting their covenantal relationship with the Lord and therefore God would not have been bound to 'save' them. ��� Does any of that make sense, Peter? > � I believe that we are obligated to follow God's "conditions" (laws) if we > are to find ourselves worshipping around the throne DAVEH:� <VBG>� I assume you mean that in a figurative sense? > in heaven someday.� Not > that it will save us, but that God simply cannot have some people > "pick-pocketing" others in heaven while they are not looking, being to > enraptured with God's presence.� God would have to have a police force and a > criminal justice system to deal with this(!), and the bible clearly showes > the world's final judgment at the return of Christ.� Things will of > prophetic necessity have to be sinless in heaven.� I think that God's people > should try to become(through Jesus' grace and strength) sinless here on > earth as well(not that it won't be difficult). DAVEH:�� I agree.� But I don't expect that to happen for most until in the post-mortal existence.� Don't get me wrong.....I don't think bad guys will suddenly become good guys merely by dying.� That nature we have in this life will rise with us in the resurrection.� But IMHO, by the time we reach our Judgment Day (or the time of our resurrection), we will need be perfect to enter heaven with the Lord. > � Also, you use the phrase "return to heaven" - !� Do you (as a mormon) > believe that we (our personal spirits) were all in heaven at one point in > the past? DAVEH:� Yes, as spiritual creations of our Heavenly Father.� I've referred to that pre-mortal existence many times in past posts, though you may have missed them.� I'll explain it as much as you wish if you missed those posts. > �The bible cleary shows that we are made of the dust of the earth > (Gen. 2:7). DAVEH:� That does not include our spirits. > It also shows that we (our soul) are put together of two > (equal????) parts- the dust as one, and the spirit, or breath of life, as > the other.....� Just because our spirits came from above, it does not mean > that they were not created for us the moment our physical bodies were > conceived. DAVEH: Whew.......Finally, somebody in TT who doesn't have a problem with a 'pre-mortal' existence!� <G> > God, as the creator, obviously did create our spirit at some > point, DAVEH:� Yes Peter, I believe there were two creations.� A spiritual (in the pre-mortal existence) by our Heavenly Father, and a physical creation by Jesus. > or do you believe that we always existed?? > -Peter -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ � ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
