Re: [TruthTalk] Paradise

[Dave]

Terry Clifton wrote:  To DaveH:A short time back, if I remember correctly, you said that in your opinion, people do not die and go to Heaven.  I gathered from what you were saying that Paradise and Heaven were two separate places, and that Paradise was sort of a holding place for the spirits of the dead, while their bodies are waiting resurrection. DAVEH:  Yes, that is close to what I was explaining before.  As we know from the Bible, Jesus said he'd be with the thief in paradise on "that day", or the day they both died.  Yet he did not ascend to his Father in Heaven until the 3rd day, as he explained to Mary.  (Jn 20:17)  If I am a little foggy on this, feel free to correct me, because at the time I simply dismissed the whole matter. In any case, you felt that no one was yet in Heaven. I bring this up again because as I was reading my Bible this morning, I noticed that Paul said in Phil.1:23, that his desire was to depart and be with Christ. DAVEH:  Correct.......One would think that is the desire of all Christians.  Now we know that Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father, in Heaven, DAVEH:  That may be, but it does not mean he's glued to the chair, so to speak.  1Pet 3:19 mentions that Jesus...... "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison." .......which would indicate that he 'went' to a place where his Father was not, to preach to somebody.....presumably non-believers.  Do you think that 'prison' would have been heaven, Terry?  I don't.     I believe after we die we await the resurrection in the spirit world, which is comprised of believers (so to speak) who are in a realm called paradise, and non believers who are in a spirit prison.  There the gospel will be taught (1Pet 4:6) so that all men can face judgement on and equal basis. and we know that Paul feels that if he dies (is executed) he will be with Jesus, DAVEH:   And that should be the desire of all Christians.  However, that does not mean that it has to happen immediately.  And even if it does happen immediately, it does not necessarily have to happen in heaven.  As with the thief, Jesus could meet any of us in the spirit world. so evidently there is some room for error in your premise.  A little further study reveals that Paradise is in the third Heaven, which is up, not down,(2 Cor. 12:1-5). So, looking in that direction, we find that the tree of life is in Paradise (Rev. 2:7) and we find that the tree of life is in Heaven (Rev.22:2) .  To me, the obvious conclusion is that Paradise and Heaven are the same place.How 'bout them apples? DAVEH:  Are "them apples" from the tree of life?  <VBG>    I believe paradise is used to symbolically denote several garden like realms where Christians exist, just as the tree of life was referred to in both the Garden of Eden and heaven.. Terry -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.