DAVEH: The point I'm trying to make (and find out why Protestants believe as they do), is that God could have created us and the world that way (devoid of the problems) from Day 1. Yet for some reason, he allowed sin to enter into the equation. Let me ask you, Judy.....do you believe God could have prevented Satan from tempting Eve (and us) and then we all could have lived in 'paradise'? I assume you do. Then let me ask another related question.......why did God prevent Adam/Eve from partaking of the fruit on the tree of life?
jt: You don't seem to get it Dave because you are trying to rationalize and make God into some image you have and I don't know that you will ever coming to an understanding this way, Jesus said that we would have to believe first and then we would know regarding the doctrine, that is whether or not it is so....
I wrote: I don't know if you have ever studied Covenant Dave. God is a God of Covenant and Satan's treachery is used to test them. God tests everything He creates.
DAVEH: I'm not sure that makes sense....Why would that be necessary for a God who knows the outcome prior to the test?
jt: It may not make sense to the 'carnal mind' but that's the way it is. He allowed false prophets to test Israel and He allows all kinds of things today. It is up to us to make the right choices, to choose the narrow road that leads to life. Yes, He's aware from the start, it's us who need to see that we miss the mark.
DAVEH: Wouldn't it just be simpler if he tossed his faulty creations into the flaming pit without putting them through the testing phase? Or better yet, why not just NOT make 'defective' people?
jt: It may be simpler but it wouldn't be love which is God's nature. He is not willing that any should perish and desires that all come to the knowledge of Truth. Paul writes to the church at Thessalonica that God Himself will send strong delusion to those who do not love the Truth so that they may believe the lie.
DAVEH: That almost sounds pervese. Would a parent be considered 'good' if they were to continually put temptations in front of their children?
jt: God can not be tempted with evil, neither does He tempt any man. We are tempted when we are drawn aside after our own lust. Anyone who wants to can seek after and know the truth. Problem is many do not want to and we will be responsible for our choices in life.
DAVEH: Normally, parents try to shield their children from the bad things in the world. Yet you are making it sound like God is going to extremes to 'encourage' his children to fail.
jt: At some point parents must allow their children to sink or swim.
DAVEH: This makes me think that Protestants believe God enjoys punitively punishing his creations by torturing them in the lake of fire. (We've had a few discussions about this prior to your joining TT, Judy.)
jt: I have no idea what you've heard and shudder to think in light of what has recently transpired with regard to street preaching in SLC. I would have to agree with your perspective toward such antics. I keep hearing about Jesus in the temple and Elijah on Mount Carmel but these people are not walking in the Spirit and power of Jesus or Elijah. I wrote: Do you really find Mormonism logical?
DAVEH: Very much so. That is why I am so curious about Protestant theology, as I don't see a logical pattern in it. Yet so many folks seem to think it is logical, so I'm trying to find out why they believe as they do so I can understand how they perceive its logical progression.
jt: I'm not surprised to hear that because the deceiver has been busy for the past 2,000 and there are more than 400 different doctrines all claiming to be 'Truth' - and this is why it is imperitive for those desiring to know and serve the Lord to understand the scriptures for themselves. I've been doing our families genealogy and used to visit the local FHC so I have met a lot of very nice Mormon ppl but I don't find the belief system logical by any stretch because the writings of Joseph Smith et al conflict with the clear Word of Truth which is scripture. Have you thought about this?
DAVEH: I don't see that conflict at all. What it does conflict with is the common perception many Protestants think about what the Lord says in the Bible. Let me give you an example. JS taught that baptism is necessary for salvation. All the Protestants I've discussed this with say that it is not. However, there were Christians in Biblcal times that believed it was a necessity, as evidenced by 1Cor 15:29. Yet Protestants seem to ignore this passage. When I mention it on TT, some go to extremes to suggest that those Primitive Christians who were baptizing for the dead were heretical and wrong to do so. I find that rather curious, considering Paul saw fit not to criticize their actions.
jt: Paul did not baptize for the dead and neither did any other apostle that I am aware of and only the rcc place such an emphasis on baptism. They claim that one can be saved by baptism into their system. The scriptures actually teach baptism is a sign confirming the spiritual work of grace that has been done already in the person's heart.
So Judy, to answer your last question........YES, I've thought about it a lot. Much of what JS taught does seem logical, while much of what I hear from Protestants seems illogical. But of course, I am highly biased.
jt: At 8yrs old you were not ready to evaluate and so you apparently accepted what you were taught as truth. However, the incident JS had with the angel Moroni does not stand the test and the book of Mormon along with the other two books are 'another gospel' and the LDS Jesus is 'another Jesus' but then I'm probably repeating what you have heard already.
Judy
