DAVEH: Do you suppose the 'salvation' Jesus
referred to coming to Zacchaeus' house (Lk 19:9) might refer to the
author of salvation (Jesus) abiding at his house (Lk 19:5)?
> the cross, both of which would seem to
punch holes in your argument,
tc:No
DAVEH: You are reading into Scripture what is
not there, Terry. What makes you think the thief was saved?
While no claim of salvation is made by Scripture, many folks make that
mistaken assumption based on the comment that Jesus made that he (Jesus)
would see him (the thief) in paradise. .
The reason we know the thief did
not go directly to heaven is
because Jesus
told him........
"........Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou
be with me in
paradise." (Lk
23:43)
..........Now, where did Jesus go that day (which
was Friday)? We know
it was not
heaven, because 2 days later he said to
Mary........
"......Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to
my Father:......" (Jn
20:17)
.......So Terry, since Jesus had not yet returned
to his Father until
Sunday (after he met
Mary), then it follows that he spent the
previous day or so NOT in heaven. That brings up the
question of where
was he? I have
quoted this verse before, but will do so
again.......
"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the
just for the unjust,
that he might bring us
to God, being put to death in the flesh,
but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and
preached unto
the spirits in prison; Which
sometime were disobedient, when
once the
long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark
was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls
were saved
by water." (1Pet
3:18-20)
.......And, what was he doing there?........
"For for this cause was the gospel preached also to
them that are dead,
that they might be
judged according to men in the flesh, but
live according to God in the spirit." (1Pet
4:6)
........So, it seems reasonable to conclude that
paradise is not in
heaven, but a part (with
spirit prison) of the spirit world where
Jesus taught the gospel to those who had not yet heard
it. This gives
evidence of several
things.....
1. Spirits exist after death and prior to
being resurrected.
2. The gospel can be taught to those who have
previously died.
3. Those spirits have free agency to accept
the gospel.
4. The reason the gospel is taught in the
spirit world, is that the
spirits who have
not had the opportunity to hear the gospel while
alive would hear it in the spirit world so that they could
be judged as
though they were still in the
flesh, but return to heaven.
5. The spirit world is comprised of a
paradise and a spirit prison.
6. And finally, the thief was not necessarily
"saved" merely because Jesus said he would meet him in paradise.
> with no mention of even a drop of
water.
DAVEH: Perhaps he was one of those who were
baptized for the dead as mentioned by Paul in 1Cor 15:29!
:-)
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