From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> David Miller wrote: It seems to me that if we believe the Bible, we have to believe in revelation from outside the Bible because that is what the Bible teaches. In other words, it is a contradiction to say you do not believe in revelation from outside the Bible and also say that you believe in the Bible.
Judy wrote: I don't think so DavidM. What would be the point? DavidM: The point is that Jesus Christ leads us into a living relationship with him through the spirit rather than a religious relationship with words written in ink on paper. Judy: The living relationship is through His Word. They are not just religious words written in ink on paper, they are Words of Life inspired by the same Holy Spirit. I wrote: This would add to God's Word which He has expressly forbidden, DavidM You are misunderstanding what the Scriptures teach in this regard. Let me explain from experience what these verses mean and then quote the passages so that you can see that what I teach about this is true. Understand that I am not a vacuum, but rather I have thoughts and feelings and interpretations of my own. Therefore, when the Word of the Lord comes to me through the Spirit, after it has been received within my spirit it comes to my mind. Immediately at that point I have my own understanding and perceptions of the Word and what it might mean. There is a tendency for a person to add to the word or take away from it, based upon my own understanding. As we experience this, we learn that we might actually corrupt the word of prophecy that comes to us, adding our own heart and desire to what the pure Word of the Lord is. Judy: I believe you are misunderstanding here David because no word of prophecy can ever be assumed 'pure' because the human spirit is subject to the man and this is why others must judge. OTOH scripture is not judged - but rather it judges us (John 12:48) DavidM: Therefore, knowing these things, we learn the importance of not adding to the Word or taking away from it. This concerns that actual Word given, and not the idea that we cannot receive another Word later, or even a revelation that might clarify the first Word. Let me give you an example from the Bible so that the focus isn't upon me. I've already been called a cult leader and not a Christian, so if I use some personal examples it will likely be twisted in various ways just out of spite to try and make me look bad. Let's look at an example of a New Testament prophet named Agabus. And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus. And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles. And when we heard these things, both we, and they of that place, besought him not to go up to Jerusalem. Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine heart? for I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus. And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will of the Lord be done. (Acts 21:10-14 KJV) Judy: <snip example of Paul and Agabus for brevity> I don't believe the scripture is referring to the kind of thing you describe here. What Paul received from Agabus was a Word of Knowledge as in 1 Corinthians 12:8 and he spoke it as he received it by the Holy Spirit. DavidM: The point is that the teaching of Scripture not to add to the Word of the Lord or take away from the Word of the Lord is not a teaching that revelation has ceased. It is a teaching that we need to keep the Word of revelation pure and separate from our own thoughts and interpretations. We need to make a distinction between what the Word of the Lord is and how we interpret the Word of the Lord. Judy: Whether or not 'revelation' as you call it has ceased, this is not what the scriptural admonition refers to. We see it in Deuteronomy 4:2, Proverbs 30:6, and Revelation 22:18. These scriptures refer to the Word of God as recorded in scripture and not some revelation coming at a later date. DavidM: Following are three passages that warn against adding to or taking away from the Word of the Lord. Notice that the teaching in Deuteronomy did not cause prophets and revelation to cease after the Torah was complete. Likewise, the passage in Proverbs did not cause revelation to cease. Neither should we assume that revelation ceased after the book of revelation warned not to add to or take away that particular revelation. Consider the passages themselves now in light of what I have just taught: Judy: I'm still not sure what you are trying to teach DavidM but I believe it is dangerous because it is this kind of mindset that opened the door for the rcc and their ex cathedra revelations. Look at all the doctrines they have added to the clear teaching of God's Word. Then add on the 400+ Protestant doctrines out there. This is what God is trying to protect us from in giving these warnings. <snip> DavidM: Being open to truth outside the Bible does not automatically justify all extra Biblical teachings. We must recognize that there are indeed falsehoods and false spirits in the world, and therefore we must exercise judgment. Judy: And what is the plumbline? What is truth? Mormons believe in extra biblical revelation, they have their D&C and Book of Mormon, the JW's have their extra biblical stuff and so do Christian Scientists and on & on. Could you show me an example of what you would consider to be extra-Biblical revelation DavidM? DavidM: The passage I quote for you above with Agabus in Acts 21 would be an extra-Biblical revelation. This was something that he did not learn from studying the Scriptures. It was a revelation he received from the Holy Spirit. Judy: I wouldn't call it an extra-Biblical revelation. It is a Word of Knowledge, which is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit given to the Church when Jesus ascended. DavidM: Most all of the teachings of Paul the apostle are also extra-Biblical revelation. Here what he said to the Galatians: But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. (Galatians 1:11-12 KJV) So what he taught, although confirmed by the Scriptures (Paul often points his readers to the Hebrew Scriptures concerning what he teaches), was actually from revelation through the Spirit. Judy: But notice he checked it out by running it by the men in Jerusalem before he went public with it. Paul was already well taught in scripture being a Pharisee. The revelation he speaks of is understanding of those same scriptures ... as described in Luke 25:42. Judy wrote: I just visited a Church we used to attend the ministry of which are led by extra-biblical prophecy and six years ago they followed one of these "words" and built a huge monolith of a building that seats 5,000+. It is just 1/3 full and they are struggling to pay for it, but they just got a "word" that God is going to pay it off. Is this the kind of thing you are talking about? DavidM: The Holy Spirit is able to guide people in their building projects, but most of these type prophecies are carnal. Men often have vain ambitions of empire building that the Spirit does not care about. Judy: Not building only. Some go over land and sea to make one proselyte ... who - well I'm sure you are familiar with the rest. On the positive side of this, I remember once looking into buying a house in Tampa to use for a ministry house for young men to be discipled in the Lord. This was completely by revelation. I was praying and saw a house and the spirit told me to go find it. Every time during my private time in prayer, this would happen. So I got in my car and started driving around Tampa, asking the Lord to show me where to go. I found this house. At first, I wanted to buy it myself, thinking that this was what it was all about, but in prayer the Lord gave me a revelation about a certain young man in our home church indicating that he wanted him to buy that house. This man was a prophet of the Lord and so I went to him and showed him the house and spoke to him about it. The Lord also spoke to him and confirmed the Word which I had received. Some other brothers in the church also agreed that God's hand was in this thing. The house was old but a fairly large corner house in the inner city. It sat on two large lots. The asking price of the house was something like $56,000. When it came down to making an offer on the house and concluding the business transaction, this other prophet had a word from the Lord to offer $22,000. I thought he was nuts. I said, "are you sure that the Lord told you that? They might just refuse to do business with you for offering so little." He said he did not understand it, but he knew what God said. So he made that offer and they ended up agreeing on $26,000 for the property. The whole matter was a great blessing, and many good men lived in that house, some men being discipled in the ways of the Lord, and other men who tutored others in the ways of the Lord. In fact, one of those men is a member of this list today (Michael Douglas). :-) Judy: Yes, there is the real as well as the false.. out there. Grace and Peace, Judy ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. 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