Dean wrote: > I believe that apart from God good works are of > a selfish motive. It's like what can they receive > in turn for the good work. Even love.
We agree that apart from God, there is no such thing as good or love. Nevertheless, you seem to hint on the idea perhaps that only Christians love and have good works. Is that what you think? Do you think that only those who are born again manifest any goodness? My position is that those who are apart from God sometimes do experience God, before they have actually become born again and experienced the life changing experience of regeneration. Are we in agreement with this concept or not? David Miller wrote: >> No, I do not believe that Satan is able to say >> Jesus is Lord. That would be like asking Hitler >> to say that a Jew is King of the world. Dean wrote: > Matt.8:29,31 > Jesus is recognized as the son of God and in verse 31 > His power is recognized-by demons. So Satan can say > Jesus is Lord but would he really mean it? Would the > Jesus that Satan would portray lead anyone unto > salvation-No -this Jesus he would portray -would only > corrupt-not save. Recognizing Jesus as the Son of God is not at all the same as saying Jesus is Lord. When a person or spirit says Jesus is Lord, this is giving acknowledgment to him and his authority and power over him. For a demon to say, "you are the Son of God" conveys none of this idea. It is only an acknowledgment and serves for deceptive purposes. Demons readily acknowledge who Jesus is, the Son of God, but they are terrified of the concept that Jesus is Lord. Though they acknowledge that Jesus is Lord, they do not confess that Jesus is Lord in any way. David Miller wrote: >> I meant the kind of grace that is extended to men >> whereby they experience the light of God but have >> not yet been brought to salvation. Dean wrote: > All men are giving knowledge of God and knowledge of sin. > God said he would write his laws in every mans heart. > Some simply will not repent and go deeper into the darkness- > Yet will come to you in sheepish clothing. How are all men given knowledge of God and knowledge of sin? Is it not through a working of God's grace? Is not the Holy Spirit involved in such? I'm trying to see if we are in agreement that God works in the hearts of those who are not born again Christians. Do you believe in the work of the Holy Spirit in the unbeliever? David Miller wrote: >> In your perspective, is it possible for a Mormon >> to experience God and the illuminating work of the >> Holy Spirit that happens in the unbeliever prior >> to salvation? Do you see them as in utter darkness >> with no light whatsoever just because they are >> "Mormon," or do you recognize a grace that operates >> whereby the light of Christ comes to them, but not >> yet bringing salvation. Dean wrote: > I believe that if that light is upon them they still > have a choice to make-How can one know Jesus and > teach/stang against his truths. This happens all the time, not just in Mormonism, but in all branches of Christianity. Most people do not walk in the truth of Christ, though his light shines upon them. Dean wrote: > Can a practicing Homo know God? Can he be saved and > still do the perversion? I'm not talking about the grace of God which has brought the born again experience. We know and agree that those who believe in Christ do not continue to sin. Nevertheless, there is a work of God's Spirit that touches them while they are still in sin, and while they are still involved in false religions and false teachings. That is what I am seeking to get understanding and agreement about with you. You seem to think that if someone has gotten involved in a man-made religion that somehow that makes them anathema to God to such a degree that God does not reveal himself to them in any way. Dean wrote: > To teach Mormonism is to teach the unclean-to touch > the filthy thing. How can one be clean while still > touching the filthy thing. They are not clean. As we have heard DaveH confess many times, he acknowledges that he continues to sin. Joseph Smith said the same thing about himself. These men know that they are not born again and not yet saved. The problem is that they have hope that they will be saved because that is what their religion teaches them. They believe that because they have been baptized by the proper authority, they will be saved. This is just like the Pharisees who believed that because they were children of Abraham and circumcised, they would be saved. Dean wrote: > If God is giving one knowledge to the saving grace > will not that one be moving away from the filthy > thing I see not evidence of this-I see those here > moving closer to that which is not clean. I see a > bias here David-yes- clear as a bell. I think it only appears to you that I am moving toward Mormonism because I do not operate by a religious spirit. From my perspective, all religions of men are nothing. So for me, Mormonism, or Baptist, or Presbyterian, or Roman Catholic, or Methodist, or Muslim, or Seventh Day Adventist, or Messianic, or Judaism, or whatever... What do any of these institutions of religion have to do with salvation? Anything? The only thing that matters is Jesus Christ. A Baptist who is distracted from Jesus Christ because of his religious denomination is just as lost as the Mormon who is distracted by his. Is Mormonism more dangerous than the Baptist sect? Certainly, in many ways it is, but the principles are still the same and God's Spirit works across the religious boundaries that men construct in the same way. What concerns me about your approach is the religious bigotry that constantly manifests itself. You would not treat a lost Baptist in the same way as you would treat a lost Mormon. Your attitude towards Mormons is more like that of the apostles who wondered why Jesus would even talk to that Samaritan woman at the well. Imagine a Baptist and a Mormon standing next to each other in a park. They see in the distance a homeless man being beaten and robbed of his food stamps. As the attackers run off, the Baptist is thinking to himself what he should do, while the Mormon goes to the hurt man, puts him in his car, and takes him home and cares for him until he is better. Which of these two men do you think was walking in the grace of Christ? Do you think the scenario is impossible because a Mormon would never act with this kind of love? Do you think that the Mormon must have some ulterior selfish motive because he is Mormon and not Baptist? Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. 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