Re: [TruthTalk] What advantage is there to Mormonism? None

[Kevin Deegan]

Blaine: But even if it was a lie, you have to admit it was a grand lie--too

good for any man to do

A grand Lie transmitted from a Lying Spirit through Jo Smith the clairvoyant, Psychic and medium or Spirit Channeler?

From Jo's own mouth & others, Divination produced this BoM

http://www.irr.org/mit/divination.html

By use of seer stones (crystal balls)

Magically appearing Light out of darkness Auto-writing text appears out of nowhere

Sticking his head in a hat

using magic spectacles

Is this why the BoM has a FAMILIAR SPIRIT?

 

For all of your Crystal Ball needs see D&C 130

http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/130

* those who attain glory in the afterlife will receive a seer stone of their own

* Earth will become a giant crystal ball,  and those residing on it will be able to look into it and see things happening on inferior planets

* God lives on a giant crystal ball

* Others recieved AUTO-WRITING from a Spirit, why not believe them?

http://essenes.net/cctarot.htm

Scott C. Dunn, "Spirit Writing, Another Look at the Book of Mormon," Sunstone, June 1985, Vol.10, No. 6, pages 17-26.

http://skepdic.com/medium.html

Why not trust other spirit chanellers such as J Z Knight & RAMTHA?

http://skepdic.com/channel.html

 

 

A Grand lie of a grand Story teller?

The general Authority, B H Roberts Studies of the Book of Mormon (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1992) who lost his faith in the BoM,

1) PLENTY OF MATERIAL AVAILABLE TO BUILD A STORY Believes Smith borrowed much of the plot and other details of the Book of Mormon from other books readily available to him. There were many visionaries with stories parralleling & PRECEDING the "First Vision story"  that Jo could have borrowed from. These stories conatin all the important details, for Jo to simply combine into one glorious Story. Many contemporaries of Jo talked of the Lost Tribes coming to America.

2) Jo HAD PLENTY OF CREATIVE ABILITY & SKILL IN STORY TELLING

Jo's Mom had this to say BEFORE Jo supposedly found the plates: During our evening conversations, Joseph would occasionally give us some of the most amusing recitals that could be imagined. He would describe the ancient inhabitants of this continent, their dress, mode of travelings, and the animals upon which they rode; their cities, their buildings, with every particular; their mode of warfare; and also their religious worship. This he would do with as much ease, seemingly, as if he had spent his whole life among them (Studies, p. 243). His skill would explain the evolving nature of the different accounts, getting better with each retelling (Older versions have just an UNNAMED Angel later versions have Eloheim)

 

 

 

A Grand Lie  of Jo Smith the Grand Story Teller?

Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: "Blaine Borrowman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Blaine writes:  
I believe in your heart you have fellowshipped with Jesus Christ.  
I believe, however, that all things not entered into by Jesus Christ's 
properly acknowledged authority--the priesthood as revealed  to 
Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery--will be of no effect in the world 
to come, in and after the resurrection.  Marriages, baptsims, or any 
other ordinances, not sanctioned by this authority will be null and 
void in the world to come.  Read section 132: 4-7 D&C: 
 
Judy:
Blaine the above is lies and deception.

 

Blaine:

Stating it is such does not in any way show it is.  One must have

the spirit of the Holy Ghost with him/her to know if this is true or not. 

 

Judy:

If I were to write three pages showing it is you would not receive it

because you are convinced, you have bought the lie.

 

Blaine:

But even if it was a lie, you have to admit it was a grand lie--too

good for any man to do,

 

Judy:

Men lie all the time and deceive people with their lies look at

Mohammad, Sun Yung Moon, Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Darwin,

I could go on and on. In fact the whole world is under the spell of

the evil one so ppl following the lie are the majority.

 

Blaine:

and definitely supported by too many scriptures and prophesies

to be a work of the devil. 

 

Judy:

Now this is where I've got ya. The book of Mormon is not supported

by scriptures or Biblical prophecy at all. There is no race of ppl

called Nephites and Jesus did not ever come to Missouri in the

flesh.

 

Blaine:

Remember, Jesus was also accused many times over of being a

worker of the devil, and a liar.  As he said, why would the devil

work against himself--in this case, by fulfilling Biblical prophecies? 

 

Judy:

He said a house divided could not stand and if you are going to

use Jesus words then you need to honor ALL of them in balance

and in context rather than just taking out the ones that support

controversial questions and spurious doctrines.

Blaine:
For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant; 
and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one 
can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory.
 
Judy:
The Covenant was in place years before Joseph and Oliver were
born and died.  God's Word is eternal and God is not a man that
he should lie.

 

Blaine: 

As it says, this was NEW covenant--it then gives the conditions

for this covenant, that you do all things in the order prescribed.

 

Judy:

If this were a VALID NEW covenant it would have been spoken

of by the prophets of old.  The new covenant that stands was

described in Jeremiah and in Ezekiel before it was written of

in the book of Hebrews.  To be valid it must have two or more

witnesses in the Bible.

Blaine:
 5 For all who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the 
law which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions 
thereof, as were instituted from before the foundation of the world.
 6 And as pertaining to the new and everlasting covenant, it was 
instituted for the fulness of my glory; and he that receiveth a 
fulness thereof must and shall abide the law, or he shall be 
damned, saith the Lord God.
 
Judy:
The faith once delivered to the saints says "Knowing that a man
is NOT justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus
Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be
justified by the faith of Christ and not by the works of the law,
for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified" (Gal 2:16)

 

Blaine: 

This is not talking about the law--which means the law of Moses. 

This is something else, associated with the law given to Joseph Smith

to be adhered to in these last days. 

 

Judy:

It is still phoney baloney Blaine because Jesus did not come to

re institute any law other than the promise of the law being written

on their hearts when they come to Him by faith. The first Adam was

a living soul, the second Adam is a life-giving spirit. The gospel

is spiritual Blaine and the fruit in a persons life is spiritual. Even

though wives and children can be a blessing they are not the fruit

of the gospel or the fruit of a spiritual life.

 

Blaine:

It is a law given in the end of times, to a prophet raised up for these

specific times.  Nothing in the Bible says God cannot do this. He is

incharge, and is, after all, God.  It is not our duty to find flaws and

loopholes in his law.  This has been done, or attempted at least,

in all times and dispensations of the gospel. 

 

Judy:

There is just one Prophet, Priest, and King and his name is not

Joseph Smith. We have God's Word and the book is sealed. There

is ONLY ONE DOOR and ppl who try to show a different way to

heaven are thieves and robbers.

 

Blaine:

7 And verily I say unto you, that the conditions of this law are 
these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, 
vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, 
that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit 
of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for 
all eternity, and that too most holy, by revelation and 
commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I 
have appointed on the earth to hold this power (and I have 
appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this power in the 
last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on 
whom this power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred), 
are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from 
the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have 
an end when men are dead.
(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 132:4 - 7)
 
Judy:
The above is "another gospel"
And the faith once delivered to the saints says:"there are some
who would trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach ANY OTHER
gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, 
LET HIM BE ACCURSED. As we have said before, so say I now
again. If any man prech any other gospel unto you than that ye
have received, LET HIM BE ACCURSED." (Gal 1:7-9)

 

Blaine: 

Joseph Smith is honored by over 11 million people today

as their Prophet and revelator.  I would not call that being accursed. 

 

Judy:

Wait and see if these 11 million ppl make it Blaine, and if we are

going by numbers then there are many more ppl who are blindly

following Mohammad who also listened to a different gospel given

by an angel of light. 

 

Blaine:

He is thought of as giving us that portion of the word of God needed

for these last days, as the forerunner of Jesus Christ's second

appearance.  

 

Judy:

There is no forerunner needed for these last days other than the

Holy Spirit who was promised and He (the Comforter) it is who is to

lead us into ALL TRUTH.

 

Blaine:

Of course, since the work involved is far more extensive than it

was in the days of John the Baptist, a mighty missionary force is

called to be fishers and hunters of the House of Israel, as promised

and prophesied  (Jeremiah 16:15-16) 

 

Judy:

Here is more twisting of the truth.  Jeremiah is not referring to Mormons

He is prophesying about Israel returning to the land. This has nothing

to do with gentiles and contrary to what you've been taught you and

DaveH are also gentiles living in the spacious building.

 

Blaine: . 

We presently have over 40,000 misionaries proselyting in the field. 

If God is going to curse this work, he shows no signs of it so far. 

The work has prospered despite heavy opposition from the start.   

I will send you some better photos of the Ghana, Africa, Temple,

as I said I would, plus some of the missionary force at work on

that continent.  Meanwhile, consider this: 

 

Judy:

Without Truth it matters not how many people are out there and

anyway there will be a great apostasy or "falling away" from the faith

before the second advent.  Why get so excited about these temples?

God does not live in buildings made by men's hands.

.

Blaine:

"I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the

everlasting gospel to preach to them that dwell on the earth, and to

every nation, and kindred, and tongue and people, saying with a

loud voice, fear God, and give glory to him, for the hour of his

judgement is come>  Rev 14: 6-7 .... 

 

Judy:

Yes, I'm familiar with these verses

 

Blaine:

This is in essence a contradiction of what you are saying, since it speaks

of another angel having an "everlasting gospel, to be preached

before the end. 

 

Judy:

I don't see how it is a contradiction of anything I've said. All through the

book of Revelation there are angels bringing different judgments upon

the world but this particular angel has a different message but it is 

not a different gospel. It is the same as always which is "Fear God and

give Him glory" the only thing added is "for the hour of his judgment has

come"  Now noone living right now can say this because only the Father

knows when that hour will come.

 

 

Blaine:

 Why is this, if the full gospel is already being preached by Protestant

missionaries, few of whom teach a consistent meassage, that another angel

must deliver this gospel? 

 

Judy:

As I've said already this is not a "different" gospel and nothing had been

changed.  Fear God and give Him glory is the theme from Genesis to

Revelation.

 

Blaine:

It was necessary for a new source of the gospel a restoration, rather

than a reformation, to be delivered by God, since the old one had been

changed..

 

Judy:

Blaine you need to get a grip.  Nothing has changed from everlasting to

everlasting and the sooner you figure that out the better for you.

 

Blaine:

Why do you think we have the statue of this angel atop every temple

built recently? 

 

Judy:

I figured it was Moroni who gave Joseph Smith his different gospel.

 

Blaine:

The statue represents our Moroni, and missionary labors to disperse

the gospel as revealed to  Joseph Smith by the angel Moroni.   

The Book of Mormon, along with other scriptures having a revealed

source,  is that "everlasting gospel."  Moroni was the angel who

delivered it. 

 

Judy:

It is a different gospel from an angel of light which has nothing to do

with the "everlasting gospel" mentioned in the book of Revelation.

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