Terry:
I would assume that this is because we are natural born
sinners. We can manage to get involved in all sorts
of evil without the help of other humans, or fallen
angels.
Judy:
How would you describe a "natural born sinner" Terry? Just
doing what comes naturally? What do you make of Romans 7?
Paul wrote this 20yrs into his walk with the Lord and he
talked of sin as an entity dwelling in his flesh ie:
"Now then it is no more I that do it, ut sin that dwelleth in me" Rom
7:17
This is why we so desperately need to be Born Again or born of the
Spirit which happens when we agree with God, first recognizing, then taking
responsibility for renouncing and repenting (turning from) our own
sin. At this point the Comforter/Holy Spirit comes to indwell us
and to lead us into all truth.
That has been my experience, and is in keeping with
scripture
Where does the Holy Spirit dwell? In our spirit because he is
Spirit. Are we completely pure and holy when He comes to indwell us? No,
because if we were there would be no need for sanctification. Paul wrote to
the young pastor Timothy "the GOAL of the instruction is love from a PURE
heart... So the walk of salvation is a walk of
sanctification. No arguement here.
As for the evil spirit and the Holy Spirit being in the same place at
the same time - they are anyway. Both spirits are in this world as we
speak. They are together in Job 1:6 when they present themselves
before God. They are also together when the High Priest stands before
the Lord and satan is at his right hand to accuse him in Zechariah 3:1. They
were both in the same place at the same time when we responded to the gospel
the first
time.
Terry:
In my humble opinion, these two are natural enemies.
Coyotes and bobcats both live in the woods
surrounding our home. They both hunt and devour
the same prey, but they do not share the same den.
They are competitors. Both the Holy Spirit and
unclean spirits inhabit the world, but not the same home
(den) at the same time. They are in
competition. They serve different masters.
Judy:
True and there are two spirits at war within us who serve
different masters, they are called the flesh and the Spirit.
The evil spirit like
to energize the flesh and encourage it to 'come alive' after we are
born again and reckon it dead, a living sacrifice. ie:
"For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit,
and the Spirit against the flesh; and
these are contrary the one to the other" Galatians 5:17
also "From whence come wars and fightings among you?
come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your
members?" James 4:1 - sounds kind of like Coyotes and
Bobcats to me...
Terry:
In Matthew thirteen, beginning at verse forty-three, we
find a homeless demon (evil spirit) who drifts around
aimlessly for a time then returns to his home to find it
empty, swept, and in order. Since it is vacant, he
gets his evil friends and moves back in. This, to me,
is the story of someone who had been possessed by a
demon. Let's say he was an alcoholic. On his
own, acting in his own strength, he puts down the bottle
and in effect, kicks out the demon, but he does not turn to
the Lord, and the Holy Spirit does not dwell in him.
He, the house, is empty, and in short order, the demon is
back, bringing
his friends with him, and the alcoholic is now worse
off than ever. Had the Holy Spirit been invited to
live there, the demons would not have found a
vacancy.
Judy:
Hmmm, I don't believe there is any way to get an unclean
spirit to leave outside of Christ. AA encourages ppl to stop drinking and
look to a higher power but these ppl themselves will tell you that they
will always be an alcoholic, they are dry drunks whereas Jesus delivers
completely. I have a friend who has been delivered from this by faith in
Christ and it is entirely different; in our own strength we can do
nothing. My understanding of Matt 12:43 is of a person coming to faith
in Christ - this is when the unclean spirit has to go and the house becomes
swept and garnished. However, if this person does not fill the void
with God's Word the Holy Spirit has nothing to work with and the truth is
not making them progressively free and conformed to the image of
Christ, I can explain to you just how that unclean spirit and his seven
friends return .
Terry:
I have been trying to consider your definition ( Or whoever's
definition you offered) of what constitutes a soul. I really find it hard to
buy the idea that it is long term memory.
Judy:
Actually both long term and short term memory; the idea is that
the soul learns through the five senses and we process what we learn and
store it in our long term and short term memory.
Terry:
As a toddler, my mother taught me a bedtime prayer that went,
"Now I lay me down to sleep. I pray thee Lord, my soul to keep.
If I should die before I wake, I pray thee Lord, my soul to take".
This prayer gives the idea (borne out in scripture, Luke 12:20 ) that the
soul is separated from the body at death.
Judy:
I was taught to say the same prayer at night and yes the soul
is separated from the physical body at death.
Terry:
My mother and my father-in-law both lost their long term memory
long before they experienced death. My mother was in a catatonic state
for about four years before the Lord took
her. To confuse the matter even more, a little
study in the KJV shows that the Lord Himself uses the word "soul" in plural
ways. In Genesis, God breathed the breath of life into Adam and he
became a living soul. No long term memory here, and the soul seems to
imply the physical body, living clay.
Judy:
Yes the soul energizes the body but what would make
you assume Adam had no long term or short term memory? God held him
responsible to remember what he had been told which was not to eat of a
certain tree in that garden.
Terry:
In Genesis 46:18, leah bore sixteen souls to Jacob, meaning
children. In Acts 2:41, three thousand souls are saved and
baptised.
Judy:
Yes the word is used in this way also. I often use it to
describe ppl as "a sweet soul" or "a kind soul" here I had been describing
the function of the soul vs that of the human spirit.
Terry:
The more I learn, the less I know. I'm sure glad that you
are going to explain all this to me. I would hate for the shoe to be
on the other foot, where I had to explain it to you.
Judy:
I hear you Terry - I'm a learner too, and at
times it seems overwhelming, thanks so much for sharing your
thoughts.
Grace and Peace,
Judy
