DAVEH: That seems contrary to what the Lord says in Gen
3:22......
...Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:.... Logically, it was AFTER the fall that A&E took on the image of God if vs 22 means what it says. Do you disagree?
...Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:.... Logically, it was AFTER the fall that A&E took on the image of God if vs 22 means what it says. Do you disagree?
JT: Of course I disagree they were made in the image of God before they
fell, are we talking here jabberwocky or something?
DAVEH: I know some may think I'm arguing LDS doctrine on this, but I am
reading vs 22 and trying to see how it can be any other way, but it only makes
sense if they did not know the difference between good and evil until after they
partook of the FF.
JT: Let's just say that when they partook of the forbidden fruit they
became part of a "fallen kingdom" and they began to know things they had
not learned. Guilt, shame, and fear were new to them and these are certainly not
the attributes of God.
DAVEH: And....once they partook of the FF they became as
God.....with one exception.....they were then in a fallen state, and became
sinners. Hence.....a Redeemer was necessary to extract them (and us) from
that fallen/sinful state.
JT: IMPOSSIBLE. Unless God is a devil and I'm not going to go
there. Gen 5:3 teaches us that Seth who carried the godly seed was
born in the image of Adam rather than the image of God and it goes downhill from
there. All of us are all born with inherited iniquity from the
Fathers
DAVEH: What is the scriptural argument for that, Judy? Jesus
did not inherit iniquity.
JT: If I had time I could find you scriptures all through the Bible about
the iniquity of the Fathers being visited upon the children; it is something
David speaks of in Psalm 51. He may have had an ancestor that was full of
lust.
DAVEH: IMHO, the only reason we are iniquitous is not because of our being
born that way, but rather we become that way when we sin.
JT: And why do we sin? Because we are born sinners. It is our
human nature.
DAVEH: And as you know.....I do not believe infants can sin.
IMO.....they are innocent and sin free. What they inherited from
Adam is the ability to die a physical death. They cannot die spiritually
until they become capable of sinning.....and then do so. Jesus is an
example of one who was capable, but chose not to do so. As far as I
know.....the rest of us are innocent at birth, but become sinners AFTER we sin.
IMHO...We are not born that way, contrary to your opinion.
So.....I'll be anxious to see your Biblical evidence to support your
belief. (There must be a lot of it, since it seems to be a ubiquitous
belief amongst Protestants. If not.....I suspect it is an inherited
doctrine from the RCC folks.)
JT: Then you contradict yourself DaveH, you have already said that Jesus
did not inherit the iniquity of the Fathers. I agree that he could have sinned
if he wanted to but he had no inward compulsion or drive that way...
the walk of salvation is a lifetime walk of grace to return to the image we
lost in the first Adam. Jesus is the ONLY exception. He said "If
you've seen me you've seenthe Father and he said it before his death, burial,
and resurrection.
judyt
From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
DAVEH: I'm hesitant to jump into another's discussion, but it sure
seems to me that the simple answer to this may be realized IF one
considers that children may not be born with sinners, but rather they
become sinners when they learn to discern right from wrong.....and then
choose wrong instead of right thereafter. IMHO, Jesus was born
innocent, and remained sinless. On the other hand.....we are born
innocent, and make choices that cause us to sin.
Judy Taylor wrote:
judyt
From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
DAVEH: I'm hesitant to jump into another's discussion, but it sure
seems to me that the simple answer to this may be realized IF one
considers that children may not be born with sinners, but rather they
become sinners when they learn to discern right from wrong.....and then
choose wrong instead of right thereafter. IMHO, Jesus was born
innocent, and remained sinless. On the other hand.....we are born
innocent, and make choices that cause us to sin.
Judy Taylor wrote:
You will need to prove it to me by the scriptures pastorbob, Yes he needed a flesh body but he didn't need for it to be fallen flesh. In fact, fallen flesh would disqualify him to be the only kind of sacrifice God the Father would accept, that is one without spot or blemish. The OT bulls and goats were part of fallen creation but they were temporary. For a start the bloodline of the first Adam would never be called "holy" Judyt From: "Pastor Bob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Greetings jandg, "everyone born of the flesh is born in sin." I think it was Vince who said something like That's right. That's why he had to get the same flesh in him. Grace and Truth, Robert
-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
