DAVEH: I hope you don't mind my intrusion, John. First.....welcome to TT and this thread......... it is great to speak with you
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The problem with "person" (and I have used this many more times than once) gives us the impression that know what God looks like.
DAVEH: Does not the Bible suggest what God looks like when we are told Jesus is
in his express image? (He 1:3) It seems logical to me that the Son would look similar to his Father. Not at all. What do we do with John's observation that no one has seen God at any time? AND His existence apart from the incarnation (remember he EMPTIED HIMSELF OF HIS ACTUAL EXISTENCE Phil 2) is totally different from ours. He is everywhere at all times -- obvious we are not. Therefore, reason demands that he be different from us in appearance -- not to mention the fact that we actually have revelation on this matter. (I Jo 4:12 and I Jo 3:2 -- these passages clearly state that God's actual appearance is a mystery AS IS OUR FORM TO BE -- do they not?
We are persons. He is a person. They (all three) are persons --- and walla --
he is male with arms, legs, hindquarters. The manifestation becomes the reality and the observation by John that "no man hath seen God at any time" gets lost in the shuffle.
DAVEH: Do you leave any room for considering that some men of God may have seen him, though not necessarily with their natural eyes. Did not Stephen see God when filled with the Holy Ghost? (Acts 7:55) I have seen him, judyt has seen it (I am imagining that she will agree0. Many have seen a minifestation of his reality. Does he look like a burning bush or a pillar of fire or a dead man on a cross or ........?
There are certainly passages that infer that such a belief (men that see God will die) is in error. Judges 13:22 is a good example......
And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.
In the biblical message, there are three souces of information. God, Satan and man. Only the words of God in the bibilical message (whether spoken directly by him or via a prophet) are true in all cases. Satan's words are always wrong even when he is right (ulterior motives condemn even the Enemy's truth) and man sometimes gets it and sometimes not. I have I Joh 4:12 and the passage to deal with. You see how I settle the matter.
........Isaiah is another who spoke of seeing the King in 6:5. To me though, the most compelling passage is Gen 32:30......Has he seen God or a manifestation of God?
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. Here, the problem becomes complicated. Or is it. Does Jacob speak from his own sense of reality or is he, here, inspired as a prophet?
.......What more evidence can be more plain than that, John? Perhaps we will not agree. And this is why we can continue to share fellowship in spite of the disagreement. There is a revelatory issue here. And quite frankly, honest word bound people can disagree here. For me, "manifestation" gets I John 4:12 and IJOs 3:2 to agree with the scripture you point to.
Perhaps Jn 6:46 might make more sense in light of many Biblical instances (suggesting some men are able to see God and live) if one considers the exception (save he which is of God) may be referring to anybody who is filled with the HG as was Stephen, rather than thinking the passage exclusively refers to Jesus. Certainly a reasonable conclusion. Grace back at ya---JohnIn His grace
John David Smithson (JD in another and most regretable life)
