From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
the flow of the
blood is eternal and continual, that our sins are remembered NO
MORE.
jt: Unrepented sin has not gone
anywhere John and there is nothing wrong with God's memory
The problem for the
sinner is not sin, it is the decision to avoid God and, hence, His
solution.
jt: And why do we avoid God? Go back
to Genesis 3:10 "I was afraid because I was naked and I hid myself"
The problem is already
solved.
jt: Not when sin is
still present just holding to a doctrine will not cleanse the heart
John
john: I am not surprised at Blaine's works salvantionist position.
jt: If it is the post I am thinking of Blaine
posted the words of Jesus ONLY. How does obedience to God become
"works-salvation?"
john: but the single most devastating teaching,
striking at the very heart of Mormonism, is the biblical doctrine of salvation
by grace through faith apart from obedience to a system of commandments.
jt: What about obedience to the Word of God (the
Lord Jesus Christ)
john: If we are saved by grace, there is no for the "right
church."
jt: There is ONLY one right one and that
is the one that Jesus is presently building.
Central to the biblical doctrine of grace is the very obvious reality that man is a sinner. Tons of bible on this. I Jo 1:8 makes a statement in greek, a present tense statement: "if we say that we are having no sin, the truth is not within us." When I sat in first year greek and read that, understanding the impact of continuous linear action ("are having no") I was stunned.
jt: Because of the condition of our heart and the old
Adamic nature which plagues us. However, "IF we confess our sin, HE is
faithful and just to forgive our sin and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness"
(1 John 1:9) - so what does that make us?
My mind did not race to figure out how to escape the implications of this
verse. Implications? I mean I as sitting in greek class, for
crying out loud studying "the Word of God.' Not smoking. Not
drinking. Not lusting. No t ... well you get it.
AND STARING ME IN THE FACE, RIGHT THERE IN GREEK 101, WAS A VERSE THAT SAID I
WAS HAVING SIN RIGHT THEN. Bummer.
jt: Why? This is the reality and when we begin to
deal with Truth is when we make progress.
Since that first shock, I have come to realize that sin exists in, at least, two quantitative forms: time/space (historical sins such as drinking, lying, and the like --- things that last for a relatively brief period of time; things I can hide; things that often do not define who I am) and sins of character -- like envy, jealousy, hatred, bitterness, anger, slothfulness -- all those things that lay the foundation for historical sin. One murders because one is filled with hate or some type of perversion.
Since that first shock, I have come to realize that sin exists in, at least, two quantitative forms: time/space (historical sins such as drinking, lying, and the like --- things that last for a relatively brief period of time; things I can hide; things that often do not define who I am) and sins of character -- like envy, jealousy, hatred, bitterness, anger, slothfulness -- all those things that lay the foundation for historical sin. One murders because one is filled with hate or some type of perversion.
jt: We don't have to look to tradition or
history. The mirror will tell us where the sin problem resides:
"For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries,
fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness,
an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come FROM
WITHIN and defile the man. (Mark
7:21)
This is exactly why Paul says that "all have sinned and are
falling short of the glory of God."
jt: Because we are all born into this world with this
Adamic "fallen" human nature and a heart described as in Mark
7:21.
Grace people recognize the fact that sin is ever upon us, inescapable,
often intentional, always disastrous and deserving of death. Works
are commanded, they are necessary, but they are never accomplished by those who
are righteous on their merits -- never. So God
substitutes our faith for our supposed righteousness and refuses to consider our
sins.
jt: This is where things get a bit twisted.
Righteousness and obedience are both the fruit of repentance and faith
which in themselves are gifts from God. Judyt
