the flow of
the blood is eternal and continual, that our sins are remembered NO
MORE.
jt: Unrepented sin has not gone
anywhere John and there is nothing wrong with God's
memory
The problem for the
sinner is not sin, it is the decision to avoid God and, hence, His
solution.
jt: And why do we avoid God? Go
back to Genesis 3:10 "I was afraid because I was naked and I hid
myself"
The problem is
already solved.
jt: Not when sin
is still present just holding to a doctrine will not cleanse the
heart John
john: I am not surprised at Blaine's
works salvantionist position.
jt: If it is the post I am thinking of
Blaine posted the words of Jesus ONLY. How does obedience to God
become "works-salvation?"
john: but the single most
devastating teaching, striking at the very heart of Mormonism, is the
biblical doctrine of salvation by grace through faith apart from obedience
to a system of commandments.
jt: What about obedience to the Word of God
(the Lord Jesus Christ)
john: If we are saved by grace, there is
no for the "right church."
jt: There is ONLY one
right one and that is the one that Jesus is presently building.
Central to the biblical doctrine of grace is the very obvious
reality that man is a sinner. Tons of bible on this. I Jo 1:8
makes a statement in greek, a present tense statement: "if we
say that we are having no sin, the truth is not
within us." When I sat in first year greek and read that,
understanding the impact of continuous linear action ("are having no")
I was stunned.
jt: Because of the condition of our heart and the
old Adamic nature which plagues us. However, "IF we confess our sin,
HE is faithful and just to forgive our sin and to cleanse us from ALL
unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9) - so what does that make us?
My mind did not race to figure out how to escape the implications of
this verse. Implications? I mean I as sitting in greek
class, for crying out loud studying "the Word of God.' Not
smoking. Not drinking. Not lusting. No t ...
well you get it. AND STARING ME IN THE FACE, RIGHT THERE
IN GREEK 101, WAS A VERSE THAT SAID I WAS HAVING SIN RIGHT THEN.
Bummer.
jt: Why? This is the reality and when we begin
to deal with Truth is when we make progress.
Since that
first shock, I have come to realize that sin exists in, at least, two
quantitative forms: time/space (historical sins such as
drinking, lying, and the like --- things that last for a relatively
brief period of time; things I can hide; things that often do not
define who I am) and sins of character -- like envy,
jealousy, hatred, bitterness, anger, slothfulness -- all those
things that lay the foundation for historical sin. One
murders because one is filled with hate or some type of perversion.
jt: We don't have to look to tradition or
history. The mirror will tell us where the sin problem
resides: "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts,
adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit,
lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. All these evil
things come FROM WITHIN and defile the man. (Mark 7:21)
This is exactly why Paul says that "all have sinned and are
falling short of the glory of God."
jt: Because we are all born into this world with
this Adamic "fallen" human nature and a heart described as in Mark
7:21.
Grace people recognize the fact that sin is ever upon us, inescapable,
often intentional, always disastrous and deserving of death.
Works are commanded, they are necessary, but they are never
accomplished by those who are righteous on their merits --
never. So God substitutes our faith for our supposed
righteousness and refuses to consider our sins.
jt: This is where things get a bit twisted.
Righteousness and obedience are both the fruit of repentance and faith
which in themselves are gifts from God. Judyt
