Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Perfection

[Dave]

Terry Clifton wrote: DAVEH:  You are suggesting LDS theology adds to the requirements, yet you seem to have requirements for salvation too, do you not Terry?  It seems to be a matter of where the line is drawn in your theological world.  In the LDS realm, grace is the action Jesus did (I don't think I worded it very well) that makes it possible for us to be saved.  Had he not atoned for our sins, nor been resurrected so we too can enjoy that gift.....then nothing we could do on our own could bring salvation to ourselves.  Therefore.....it is by the grace of Jesus we are saved.  That does not mean we do not have to meet certain requirements as many Christians believe.  Jesus gave the requirements....and as I see it, many Christians want to minimize the importance and necessity of some of those requirements. =================================================================================== Everything you state above is true.  I guess that our big differences boil down to what is faith and what is required besides faith.  To me, faith is repenting of my sins DAVEH:  Ohhhhhh......I did not realize you felt that way.  I thought faith is one requirement, and repentance another.  But you apparently understand them to be one in the same, Terry? and completely selling out to Jesus. It is no longer me that is important.  It is all about Him. My complete trust is now in Him, denying self, following Him,doing as He commanded. DAVEH:   Hmmmmmm......it is almost sounding to me that you believe doing all that (doing as He commanded) is a requirement for salvation, though I know you really don't believe such.....do you?   Therefore, faith is a matter of devotion and obedience. DAVEH:  Then, logically wouldn't failure to be obedient be a reflection that one is not saved?   Salvation does not require that you be a foot washer, or a snake handler, or that you speak in tongues or be baptized, or do good works, or wear sacred garments, or go into all the world preaching, otherwise there could be no  deathbed conversions. DAVEH:  How do you perceive Jesus' comment...... But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. .......Do you perceive endurance unto the end to equate to faith/repentance?  To me, this comment suggests salvation isn't resolved/accomplished until the end, yet apparently many TTers do not see it as I do.  What do you think Jesus was trying to convey, Terry? Terry -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.