Dear Jonathan,
I agree with you that I do not ascribe “unsurpassable worth”
to gross sinners. What are the
scriptural commands to do that, I wonder? Perhaps I should. I’m really not sure about
that. How can I even consider the
possibility if you are not here to champion it? I suggest that you just take a week’s
rest and give yourself an emotional break from all of us fomenting Right
Wingers. Then come back and help us
further our understanding. But let’s steer clear of politics while doing
it.
PS to everyone; when I
ask a question in a TT post, please assume that I
really want an answer. I often get
frustrated when I respond to a post (from anyone) with a sincere question, and
they seem to think I’m just making a rhetorical snide remark. Please assume that I am REALLY trying to
hear what you mean. Sometimes I
think my writing style is too forceful, as I am not skillful enough with words
to be diplomatic; I just throw it out there and it may seem more emotional than
I am intending.
Love and hugs from your friend, Izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Hughes
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 6:57
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Interesting Article
Hi Izzy,
It is not politics that upsets me; it is
the frame of the conversation when something like politics is being
covered. It is when we (including me) place ourselves above others in our
judgments and do not ascribe unsurpassable worth to those we are
critiquing. My reason for taking a break is that I feel the forum feeds
on judgment, that most of our posts come out of us attempting to meet a need in
ourselves using judgment instead of love. I believe that I am one of, if
not the biggest offender in this matter. I need to figure out how to have
an opinion, to be able to critique others in love, with the love of Christ.
Even in my ‘good-bye’ post, while containing a lot of good had some
judging parting shots. I feel that my time here has been very beneficial
but it has also exposed a large side of me that needs to be penetrated by who
Christ is. It is time for me to stop being all talk and to move a lot of
head knowledge to my heart. My reason for withdrawal is to allow some
time for this to happen, to pray and meditate.
Jonathan
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ShieldsFamily
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 8:45
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Interesting Article
Amen to
John’s post. Jonathan, since politics is what really upsets you
I’m willing to ban politics from TT altogether—how about it? Izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004
11:49 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Interesting Article
Jonathan, you have read much to much emotion into my posting on this
issue. You need to go back into the archives with the question
"what are the scriptures Smithson used to convict Clinton and sanction the Republican
right?" Seriously. You are not going to find any
such thing from my posts. I do not use scripture to bulster my political
views. I do believe that Bill Clinton has value in the sight
of the Lord and to the same degree as any child of God. I do not believe
that such value-added statements mean that he was a good President or a moral
man. I do not believe that my political view (and contrary to
popular belief, I am conservative but not right wing) finds me more in God's
pleasure than those who think differently or are identified by
"liberal" or even "Canadian."
As President, there have been much worse, in terms of what was
actually accomplished. Nixon remains the most immoral of all Presidents
in my lifetime in my opinion and Ford the most unaccomplished. Both
Republicans I might add. I voted Democrat until Carter's
second run for office. He was and is a pacifist. He had
no business being President. A wonderful man (to this day) but
without a clue. I voted for him the first and very much believed in
him.
Specifically and in regard to Clinton,
I will say again that salvation issues and politics are very different
considerations. I am allowed to be a conservative. And
I am allowed to be wrong. And I am allowed to have judgments and opinions
about my political leaders. I personally do not like to mix
politics and religion and in the future, I will stand down when it comes
up.
If you were one of my boys, I would tell you take a pill and let it
go. I would also apologize for couching my opinions so forcefully
as to allow you to feel put upon and I do -- apologize.
Your contribution to this forum is considerable and, at times,
refreshing. Your emotions are much closer to the surface than many
and in the future, I will take that into consideration as I write.
But you must allow for disagreement in a forum such as this. And
you must allow this disagreement to be the product of deep
conviction. To refuse this conflict is to disallow honest exchange.
And we need to be honest with each other emotions and
all. I cannot believe that you disagree with this. I am
asking you to be more forgiving in your thinking (and by that I mean to convey
a picture of bending without breaking). Assume the best on the part
of those who disagree. I for one, will address my posts to
your concerns with a little more sensitivity.
Let's get back to the message of Christ, putting our hands to plow, forgetting
to look to past. You complimented me in my defense of
JudyT. What you do not know is that I found her writing quite
abrasive and unforgiving. But, in time, I came to see the student
in Judy Taylor and the conviction for her Lord. That conviction
trumped all other negative concerns and forced me to allow for her style
of writing in the grace of God. I see that same conviction in DavidM, Linda
Shields, Lance, Terry, Perry, Slade, DAveH and all. You need to
allow for style and opinion to be subservient to the sense of shared
brotherhood in this forum and claimed by those who write and share their thoughts.
I am asking you to do what I have done. I did not like JudyT at all
in the beginning. But I now consider her to be part of the
family -- and I have learned from this experience with JudyT to not
question the sincerity and brotherly community of those who claim the name of
Christ. Lance, BillT and your comments have helped me to
reconsider much of what I believe. That does not mean "change
what I believe" but to reconsider and, in some area, change in deed.
Anyway -- stay in the group. Learn and
grow. God works all things for good --- allow that to happen
in this case. And I will consider my communications to insure a
less abrasive stand.
a friend and a brother
John Smithson
In a message dated 7/7/2004 8:10:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
John, a man who commits
adultery (even 60 times which of course in Clinton’s case is hogwash) can still be
a Christian. It is no worse a sin than your own hypocrisy. You have
confused moral behaviour with salvation. Note that I am not claiming that
Clinton was/is
a Christian, just that your reasoning is flawed. I expect a lot from you
John. You could be the leader on this forum. Many of your posts
express the heart of God. If only this same heart would beat in love with
your political views. The compassion you had for Judy is completely
missing when you speak politically. The same thing happens with Izzy and
Terry. Where does your love go? Why isn’t Christ allowed there?
Why eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil? It isn’t
filling, and it won’t satisfy your hunger for long.
