RE: [TruthTalk] Hyperbole

[ShieldsFamily]

Bill, Whew, I hit the hot button there.  Sorry, believe me it was entirely unintentional.  I just want to know what you are trying to say, as it makes no sense to me, but obviously does to you.  Why don’t you explain to me what you mean by “the one and the many -- the way it was used, and the prominent role it played in Jewish culture”?  I am not being sarcastic.  I am not accusing you of anything.  I am saying that when a question is asked (okay—asked nicely) it would be good to respond at least for the sake of those following the conversation.  Furthermore, I am not accusing you of Universalism, but would like to know how what you believe differs from it, as so far it seems a lot like it to me.  Please don’t blame me for not understanding what has not been explained to me in a way that I have not yet understood.  I am trying to listen. And I am trying to be heard. Izzy   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wm. Taylor Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 7:21 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hyperbole   Izzy, when Terry is decent, I will be glad to respond. When he acts like he did in that post, I will not accommodate him. I have already said what I thought Jesus was doing there. Terry has no knowledge at all concerning the one and the many -- the way it was used, and the prominent role it played in Jewish culture -- yet when he has been provided with opportunity to learn, which has been on several occasions, he shuns it and spouts off his tired witticisms; he even calls for the stoning of those who could teach him.   Please save your comment about resolutions and good points being dropped for an occasion when a good point has been made. I've endured plenty of heat from you guys and have always tried to answer questions thoughtfully, thoroughly, and truthfully. When I am stumped or unsettled about a point that has been made or a question asked of me, I openly admit it to you. Don't tell me that I deliberately dodge "good points."   On the other side of the token, you know good and well that I have never taught or endorsed universalism, which espouses the final salvation of all humans, yet how many times have you or Judy, and there have been others, gotten rattled and associated my beliefs with universalism? The truth is, I have written many times about the reality of hell and the truth that it will be populated. Your accusations are sophomoric and cheap. You impugn yourselves.    You also know that I have never espoused a gospel of non-involvement. I have posted as much about participation, relationship, commitment, obedience, and repentance as any of you. I have never condoned evil or made excuses for it. If anything the Christian life that I espouse (and model!) is more involved and less violent than many of you are even willing to consider. Yet when you, Izzy, are stumped by my presentation, you end the conversation with a blatantly false summation: "How very BIZARRE.  A gospel of noninvolvement.  A gospel that permits every form of evil.  Who could possibly believe this??? (Please—don’t answer!)" [Sunday, June 06, 2004 9:28 AM ].   I have apologized on occasion for being sharp and not as patient as I should have been. On those times I meant it. The rest of the time I try to be civil, even when I am thoroughly fed up! Still, I know that what I am talking about is new to you and will take some time to digest. Why not be civil in return? Are we really into stoning these days? Is that our answer for those with whom we disagree? I am disappointed.   Bill          ----- Original Message ----- From: ShieldsFamily To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 5:43 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Hyperbole   Bill, May I ask that you respond to Terry rather than impugning his spirit? (Pretty please?) Ignore his last sentence if you want to and please respond to his valid comments about one vs many.  (One reason we fail to come to any resolutions is because when one party makes a good point the other party drops the subject).  Izzy   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wm. Taylor Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 4:19 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hyperbole   That's the spirit, Terry. ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Clifton To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 3:44 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hyperbole   Wm. Taylor wrote: jt: Slade, I say that it is a strait gate and a narrow way and that only a few (Jews, and Gentiles, as well as the Church of God) are going to find it.   Actually, Judy, if you were aware of the literary conventions of the day, you would realize that there is only One who found it. The "few" and the "many" is an appeal to the Hebrew concept of the one and the many. Jesus is the only one who made it through the strait gate and narrow way. Yet when he did, he brought with him the many, i.e, all of humanity, reconciled and restored.   Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill: You are not making sense.  All humanity is not a few.  A few is not one.  Most of humanity is on the broad road, not the narrow path.  Whoever is teachimg you should be stoned. Terry