jt:
Slade, I say that it is a strait gate and a narrow way and that only
a few (Jews, and Gentiles, as well as the Church of God) are going to find
it.
Actually, Judy, if you were aware of the literary conventions of the
day, you would realize that there is only One who found it. The "few" and the
"many" is an appeal to the Hebrew concept of the one and the many. Jesus
is the only one who made it through the strait gate and narrow way. Yet when
he did, he brought with him the many, i.e, all of humanity, reconciled and
restored.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 1:11
PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Hyperbole
Kay was not offended by your post, Judy, so it's ok. I am not
offended by your post either. I would like to demonstrate to you where the
problem lies.
Example One: The US court system made it legal to perform abortions.
In recent months, it is legal for doctors to perform abortion on teenage
girls and to prescribe abortifascient pills and condoms to teenagers without
parental consent. This means US citizens support abortion. While you will be
quick to clarify that not ALL citizens of the US support abortion, I would
be just as quick to defend the Jewish people in that they HAVE historically
kept the Law of Moses...
jt: I'm glad that we can discuss this issue and walk in love toward
one another Slade & Kay even though we may not agree (BTW are you Jewish
yourselves or Gentiles who are sympathetic to the plight of the Jews?). I
appreciate the fact that the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God and
they have taken that responsibility seriously; I also agree with you that we
can not paint everyone with the same brush. I do not judge the Jews
personally but look at the sermons of both Peter and Stephen in the book of
acts and Stephen a man full of the Holy Spirit, faith and power states that
they did not keep God's law (see Acts 7:53).
That's what KEPT THEM ALIVE these millennia when
Christianity has attempted to exterminate them... repeatedly! To this day
the Words are true: they kept the oracles of God (Romans 3). To claim that
Jewish people have not [historically] kept the Law of Moses is just as false
as to say that the Jewish people keep the Law for salvation reasons. Let me
ask you a question: WHY would a group of people "chosen by God" keep the Law
in order to be saved? They're the chosen people... they are ALREADY saved!
They place their FAITH on the fact!!! They LOVE GOD and that motivates [most
of] them to keep the Torah (some keep it to be culturally
correct).
jt: Abraham believed God, it was counted to him for righteousness;
and he is known as the father of faith. during Jesus' earthly ministry the
Jews thought they would be accepted by God in spite of their unbelief
because they were the biological children of Abraham. I'm sure you
know what Jesus told them.
Example Two: With the release of "The Passion," the question rises
once again... "Did the Jews Kill Jesus?" Surprisingly, the overwhelming
response to that question is "Yes." To those who answered "Yes," I ask, "Are
you sinless as to not have participated in Jesus's need to
die?"
jt: I don't point a finger of blame or shame at the Jews (and I did
not appreciate Mel Gibson's movie) but facts are facts and the Jews did tell
Pilate to "let his blood be upon us and our children" (Matt
27:25) Surely you would not deny this Slade?
Please pardon the "hyperbole," but what kind of question is "do you believe the Holy Spirit is also Jewish?"
Do you believe Jesus is and the Spirit is not? Do you believe neither are?
What about "The Father?"
jt: Jesus took a Jewish body upon Himself for the
suffering of death but He was there in the beginning with the Father as the
Word of God and No, I don't believe the Godhead
is in favor of any cultural bias. God is on the side of righteousness and
holiness no matter what the nationality.
I
have another question: Do you believe the Jewish People need this special
"breath from Jesus" in order to understand the Scriptures? Do Gentiles need
that same breath, or are the Jewish people "so thick" that ONLY THEY need
this extra help from Jesus?
jt: Neither do I have cultural bias Slade - everyone needs the Holy
Spirit to reveal the truth to them. How do you suppose Jesus at age 12
astounded the Jewish teachers of the law with His understanding? How
could Jesus tell the Jewish leaders they were not of God and call them
sons of the devil because they could not hear His Word?
You claimed the the Jewish People rejected their own Messiah? I'm
sure you realize Jewish men wrote the "New" Testament and current leaders
within the Messianic Jewish movement believe up to 40% of Jewish people
during the Second Commonwealth believed Yeshua was the Promised
Messiah. This helps explain why there was such a fervor against them by the
leadership of the 60%. Can you say 40% of Gentiles accept Jesus as their
Messiah and are TRUE believers? If you can't make that claim, then the
Gentiles have rejected Jesus FAR MORE than the Jewish
people.
jt: Slade, I say that it is a strait gate and a narrow way
and that only a few (Jews, and Gentiles, as well as the Church of God)
are going to find it.
We
need to be careful not to box people into groups that are too broad. This
can hurt people feelings and your goal (the proliferation of the Good News)
will suffer from it. My goal is to see ALL of Israel saved, but that's not
going to happen if we box the Jewish people in too tight. Give them the room
to be individuals ('cuz they are) and allow the reality that MANY keep the
Law of Moses and the love God with all their heart... just like
the Gentiles are individualistic and not all Gentiles support and perform
abortions on their teenage girls.
jt: Basically I agree with you Slade and my intent here was never to
comment on the culture of the Jews vs the culture of anyone else. I didn't
see what I wrote as anti-semitic since that is not my
heart...
Grace and Peace,
judyt
