jt:
Slade, I say that it is a strait gate and a narrow way and that only a
few (Jews, and Gentiles, as well as the Church of God) are going to find
it.
Actually, Judy, if you were aware of the literary conventions of the day,
you would realize that there is only One who found it. The "few" and the "many"
is an appeal to the Hebrew concept of the one and the many. Jesus is the
only one who made it through the strait gate and narrow way. Yet when he did, he
brought with him the many, i.e, all of humanity, reconciled and
restored.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 1:11
PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Hyperbole
Kay was not offended by your post, Judy, so it's ok. I am not
offended by your post either. I would like to demonstrate to you where the
problem lies.
Example One: The US court system made it legal to perform abortions. In
recent months, it is legal for doctors to perform abortion on teenage girls
and to prescribe abortifascient pills and condoms to teenagers without
parental consent. This means US citizens support abortion. While you will be
quick to clarify that not ALL citizens of the US support abortion, I would be
just as quick to defend the Jewish people in that they HAVE historically kept
the Law of Moses...
jt:
I'm glad that we can discuss this issue and walk in love toward one another
Slade & Kay even though we may not agree (BTW are you Jewish yourselves or
Gentiles who are sympathetic to the plight of the Jews?). I appreciate the
fact that the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God and they have taken
that responsibility seriously; I also agree with you that we can not paint
everyone with the same brush. I do not judge the Jews personally but look at
the sermons of both Peter and Stephen in the book of acts and Stephen a man
full of the Holy Spirit, faith and power states that they did not keep God's
law (see Acts 7:53).
That's what KEPT THEM ALIVE these millennia when Christianity
has attempted to exterminate them... repeatedly! To this day the Words are
true: they kept the oracles of God (Romans 3). To claim that Jewish people
have not [historically] kept the Law of Moses is just as false as to say that
the Jewish people keep the Law for salvation reasons. Let me ask you a
question: WHY would a group of people "chosen by God" keep the Law in order to
be saved? They're the chosen people... they are ALREADY saved! They place
their FAITH on the fact!!! They LOVE GOD and that motivates [most of] them to
keep the Torah (some keep it to be culturally correct).
jt:
Abraham believed God, it was counted to him for righteousness; and he is known
as the father of faith. during Jesus' earthly ministry the Jews thought they
would be accepted by God in spite of their unbelief because they were the
biological children of Abraham. I'm sure you know what Jesus told
them.
Example Two: With the release of "The Passion," the question rises once
again... "Did the Jews Kill Jesus?" Surprisingly, the overwhelming response to
that question is "Yes." To those who answered "Yes," I ask, "Are you sinless
as to not have participated in Jesus's need to die?"
jt:
I don't point a finger of blame or shame at the Jews (and I did not appreciate
Mel Gibson's movie) but facts are facts and the Jews did tell Pilate to "let
his blood be upon us and our children" (Matt 27:25) Surely you
would not deny this Slade?
Please pardon the "hyperbole," but what kind of question is "do you believe the Holy Spirit is also Jewish?" Do
you believe Jesus is and the Spirit is not? Do you believe neither are? What
about "The Father?"
jt: Jesus took a Jewish body upon Himself for the
suffering of death but He was there in the beginning with the Father as the
Word of God and No, I don't believe the Godhead is
in favor of any cultural bias. God is on the side of righteousness and
holiness no matter what the nationality.
I
have another question: Do you believe the Jewish People need this special
"breath from Jesus" in order to understand the Scriptures? Do Gentiles need
that same breath, or are the Jewish people "so thick" that ONLY THEY need this
extra help from Jesus?
jt:
Neither do I have cultural bias Slade - everyone needs the Holy Spirit to
reveal the truth to them. How do you suppose Jesus at age 12 astounded
the Jewish teachers of the law with His understanding? How could Jesus
tell the Jewish leaders they were not of God and call them sons of the
devil because they could not hear His Word?
You
claimed the the Jewish People rejected their own Messiah? I'm sure you realize
Jewish men wrote the "New" Testament and current leaders within the Messianic
Jewish movement believe up to 40% of Jewish people during the Second
Commonwealth believed Yeshua was the Promised Messiah. This helps explain why
there was such a fervor against them by the leadership of the 60%. Can you say
40% of Gentiles accept Jesus as their Messiah and are TRUE believers? If you
can't make that claim, then the Gentiles have rejected Jesus FAR MORE than the
Jewish people.
jt:
Slade, I say that it is a strait gate and a narrow way and that only
a few (Jews, and Gentiles, as well as the Church of God) are going to find
it.
We
need to be careful not to box people into groups that are too broad. This can
hurt people feelings and your goal (the proliferation of the Good News) will
suffer from it. My goal is to see ALL of Israel saved, but that's not going to
happen if we box the Jewish people in too tight. Give them the room to be
individuals ('cuz they are) and allow the reality that MANY keep the Law
of Moses and the love God with all their heart... just like the
Gentiles are individualistic and not all Gentiles support and perform
abortions on their teenage girls.
jt:
Basically I agree with you Slade and my intent here was never to comment on
the culture of the Jews vs the culture of anyone else. I didn't see what I
wrote as anti-semitic since that is not my heart...
Grace and Peace,
judyt
