jt: Slade, I say that it is a strait gate and a narrow way
and that only a few (Jews, and Gentiles, as well as the Church of God)
are going to find it.
Actually, Judy, if you were aware of the literary conventions of the
day, you would realize that there is only One who found it. The "few" and
the "many" is an appeal to the Hebrew concept of the one and the many.
Jesus is the only one who made it through the strait gate and narrow way.
Yet when he did, he brought with him the many, i.e, all of humanity,
reconciled and restored.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 1:11
PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Hyperbole
Kay was not offended by your post, Judy, so it's ok. I am not
offended by your post either. I would like to demonstrate to you where the
problem lies.
Example One: The US court system made it legal to perform
abortions. In recent months, it is legal for doctors to perform abortion
on teenage girls and to prescribe abortifascient pills and condoms to
teenagers without parental consent. This means US citizens support
abortion. While you will be quick to clarify that not ALL citizens of the
US support abortion, I would be just as quick to defend the Jewish people
in that they HAVE historically kept the Law of
Moses...
jt: I'm glad that we can discuss this issue and walk in love toward
one another Slade & Kay even though we may not agree (BTW are you
Jewish yourselves or Gentiles who are sympathetic to the plight of the
Jews?). I appreciate the fact that the Jews were entrusted with the
oracles of God and they have taken that responsibility seriously; I also
agree with you that we can not paint everyone with the same brush. I do
not judge the Jews personally but look at the sermons of both Peter and
Stephen in the book of acts and Stephen a man full of the Holy Spirit,
faith and power states that they did not keep God's law (see Acts
7:53).
That's what KEPT THEM ALIVE these millennia when
Christianity has attempted to exterminate them... repeatedly! To this day
the Words are true: they kept the oracles of God (Romans 3). To claim that
Jewish people have not [historically] kept the Law of Moses is just as
false as to say that the Jewish people keep the Law for salvation reasons.
Let me ask you a question: WHY would a group of people "chosen by God"
keep the Law in order to be saved? They're the chosen people... they are
ALREADY saved! They place their FAITH on the fact!!! They LOVE GOD and
that motivates [most of] them to keep the Torah (some keep it to be
culturally correct).
jt: Abraham believed God, it was counted to him for righteousness;
and he is known as the father of faith. during Jesus' earthly ministry the
Jews thought they would be accepted by God in spite of their unbelief
because they were the biological children of Abraham. I'm sure you
know what Jesus told them.
Example Two: With the release of "The Passion," the question rises
once again... "Did the Jews Kill Jesus?" Surprisingly, the overwhelming
response to that question is "Yes." To those who answered "Yes," I ask,
"Are you sinless as to not have participated in Jesus's need to
die?"
jt: I don't point a finger of blame or shame at the Jews (and I did
not appreciate Mel Gibson's movie) but facts are facts and the Jews did
tell Pilate to "let his blood be upon us and our children" (Matt
27:25) Surely you would not deny this
Slade?
Please pardon the "hyperbole," but what kind of question is "do you believe the Holy Spirit is also
Jewish?" Do you believe Jesus is and the Spirit is not? Do you
believe neither are? What about "The Father?"
jt: Jesus took a Jewish body upon Himself for
the suffering of death but He was there in the beginning with the Father
as the Word of God and No, I don't believe the
Godhead is in favor of any cultural bias. God is on the side of
righteousness and holiness no matter what the
nationality.
I have another question: Do you believe the Jewish People need this
special "breath from Jesus" in order to understand the Scriptures? Do
Gentiles need that same breath, or are the Jewish people "so thick" that
ONLY THEY need this extra help from Jesus?
jt: Neither do I have cultural bias Slade - everyone needs the Holy
Spirit to reveal the truth to them. How do you suppose Jesus at age
12 astounded the Jewish teachers of the law with His understanding?
How could Jesus tell the Jewish leaders they were not of God and call
them sons of the devil because they could not hear His
Word?
You claimed the the Jewish People rejected their own Messiah? I'm
sure you realize Jewish men wrote the "New" Testament and current leaders
within the Messianic Jewish movement believe up to 40% of Jewish people
during the Second Commonwealth believed Yeshua was the Promised
Messiah. This helps explain why there was such a fervor against them by
the leadership of the 60%. Can you say 40% of Gentiles accept Jesus as
their Messiah and are TRUE believers? If you can't make that claim, then
the Gentiles have rejected Jesus FAR MORE than the Jewish
people.
jt: Slade, I say that it is a strait gate and a narrow way
and that only a few (Jews, and Gentiles, as well as the Church of
God) are going to find it.
We need to be careful not to box people into groups that are too
broad. This can hurt people feelings and your goal (the proliferation of
the Good News) will suffer from it. My goal is to see ALL of Israel saved,
but that's not going to happen if we box the Jewish people in too tight.
Give them the room to be individuals ('cuz they are) and allow the reality
that MANY keep the Law of Moses and the love God with all their
heart... just like the Gentiles are individualistic and not all
Gentiles support and perform abortions on their teenage
girls.
jt: Basically I agree with you Slade and my intent here was never
to comment on the culture of the Jews vs the culture of anyone else. I
didn't see what I wrote as anti-semitic since that is not my
heart...
Grace and Peace,
judyt
