RE: [TruthTalk] Eye of the Storm

[michael douglas]

Michael D: Hello counsellor . Well, I think the context of my quote below should be reconsidered by you, sir...

You'll need to explain to me how I'm out of context here. James and John wanted to call down fire from heaven and destroy some Samaritans.  Jesus rebuked them for their attitude and said He did not come to destroy, but save men's lives. If we send a hurricane to Russia, that would be risking destroying folks, like James and John wanted to do with fire from heaven. Your witness, counsellor...

Jonathan Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi Michael, John�s lawyer here J

 

Jonathan in Green.

 

ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

 

 

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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Eye of the Storm

In a message dated 9/26/2004 7:33:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

This is interesting, Michael. Much of Florida is calling for a mandatory evacuation of low-lying areas, mobile homes, and manufactured homes. This has been an interesting six weeks with four storms.(PS Izzy did not post this. I think Slade did.)



I don't understand why Michael doesn't simply pray these storms into Russia.   If we have power over the weather, why not that? 
Serious as a heart attack,

John, words are much too powerful for you to be throwing around such serious metaphors, man.  I am still wondering why Russia...
brother John

Michael D: And why Russia, John? I'm interested in knowing.

A good guideline here may be the words of Jesus '...the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them...'

Blatantly taking verses out of context is not helping your argument here.  Nothing in this verse says that Jesus came to save men from the weather.  The salvation that Christ offers is much, much different.

 

Why on earth would you accuse Michael of wanting to do that??? Was that nice? Do you not realize that God can just dissolve a storm? Izzy

You lost me.  I am accusing Michael of what?   Does he not believe that Christians have authority over the weather? 

I happen to be a living testimony of this, John. And I am not the only one. Izzy, for example, has shared precious testimony here of experiences that she has had on this front. I have shared the things about storms etc. on TT because I felt I had a responsibility to, in the light of the impending Charley attack.  Can you imagine me sitting by, knowing the supernatural protection of God from these things for practically 2 decades, and allowing the TT folks who were in danger to face that, not knowing that there was a greater way available from the Lord? Of course, once I have given two or three witnesses about this, then in God's mind it's enough to establish it. That would be in your mind it�s enough to establish it, not God�s.  Claiming to speak for God where He is silent is not wise. 

I wouldn't want to suggest that you are hard of hearing, counsellor, but I have given more than adequate support from the scriptures to all. God surely isn't silent on this.

I've given alot more. Interestingly, Izzy on TT would be a second human witness for us all. I didn't even know she, or anyone else on TT had that experience before I started sharing.

It amazes me how folks can sit in the midst of clear evidence and yet reject the reality presented. This is a problem in almost all disagreements.  To one side the reality is clear evidence.  To the other�. The fact is the clear evidence you give is extremely biased and often takes scripture out of context. 

 Again you accuse me of being out of context. Please give me some clear indications rather than just a blanket statement.

This is what Jesus condemned the Scribes and Pharisees for. They kept asking for a sign when He was demonstrating it to them every day. He said an evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign. Did He really have problems with signs? Of course not, but after telling signs have been given, to still seek a sign, God rejects.

The reality that you �see� is not near as clear to the rest of us.  Nor are its results.  Jesus did not condemn the Scribes and Pharisees for not believing that Christians should be dictating weather patterns.

Well, counsellor, this is what I call out of context. As a counsellor, you should understand my argument, but you totally misapply it here. Jesus made many claims and the works He did were enough evidence that His words/message were true. He rebuked them for not believing the clear evidence. Jesus said that if He had not done the works that no other had done then they would have had no sin...I have recounted real life incidents in my life (as stated in paragraph below) If that is not evidence to you, then you must think I am a deluded storyteller or a baldfaced liar. No big thing to me. The events I have recounted are all true. It's either I have some magical powers that they have happened in my life, or God responded to my faith. Regarding controlling the weather, that's something I do very often, sometimes every day based on the season (wet/dry). People here who have seen me affect the rain, in particular, have at times pleaded with me not to intervene when they saw me about to do so. As I said before, I have many, many situations I can use as examples, but I refrain. 

Just to help you and John (and others) though, with a salient scriptural reference (not that it has not been used before) that Jesus did not rebuke the storm because He wanted to show that HE was God, but that He expected the disciples to exercise that same authority that He did over the storm, look at Mark 11:21-24:  Peter was stunned at the sight of the fig tree dead so soon after Jesus cursed it and  said:

11.  ...Master, the fig tree which thou cursesdt is withered away. 22. And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.

Jesus never said, well boys, at last you recognize me to be the Son of God or God in flesh. He told them that what He did was to demonstrate to them that they should have the same faith in God as He demonstrated. Look at the results He promised:

23. For verily, verily I say unto you, that whosoever should say unto this mountain, Be thou removed and be thou cast into the sea, and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass, he shall have whatsoever he saith.   

Look at the exhortation and promise here:                   24. Therefore I say unto you, what things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

Personally, I've poured out much from my life, supported by copious scriptures to help folks see the truth of what I am exhorting. There is alot more I can share as well, but I  would think that what I've shared should be much more than en ough. As a matter of fact, TT is the first place I've ever shared of my experiences with storms. Folks have seen me deal with weather before, but not storms. Even David Miller, whom I've known for over 20 years, never knew about what I've shared here before I started. I kept that stuff to myself. My prayer partner, whom I've mentioned heree a few times, only found out about it a couple weeks ago after our prayer about Ivan. What am I saying? God has a purpose for letting me share this stuff. God wants those of us who name His name to grow up into the fulness of Christ, and don't remain babies in Christ. I know that sounds harsh, but that's the mind of God here. God is saying to us to grow up. Some may take offense at this, but it's God's truth. This may or may not be true.  You are giving an extra biblical assertion that you are claiming is God�s mind.  This is dangerous ground brother.

 Not when you're being led by the Spirit to do it (no pride in that statement...) 

I am also included in that need to grow up. Many times God hits me that personally. God wants us to reign in this life through Jesus Christ, but if He can't get His people to believe His word, His hands are tied, and we suffer the loss. . He says, without faith it is impossible to please God. We must believe His word, not our notions, ideas or feelings about His word and His ways. How much plainer can we get than James 5 where he says Elijah was a man of like passions as we, yet he prayed and it did not rain for three and a half years, and again he prayed and it rained upon the earth.  The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much!!!!

Again taking any reference to weather (Elijah) in the Bible is not proof of us controlling the weather.  Re-read this story on Elijah.  Your weather control theory is not in the text.

Please explain how, then maybe I can agree or give my explanation

But now that you mention it, what am I to believe?  God can dissolve storms -- so why has He not done this with the four storms to strike Florida  -- or is it #5 now?
John

Are you aware of how much mercy God dispensed in all of this, John? Things could have been alot worse. FOr example, Ivan was downgraded before it hit the States. Imagine if was not downgraded. Even the media described some of the movements of Ivan as miraculous, as it spared many from direct hits. Folks in Florida need to get hold of this grace, especi ally based on where they live. God is providing answers, we are encouraged to respond.

That God�s mercy was dispensed is obvious everyday when we are not all burnt up.  Whether Ivan was downgraded as a natural result of the weather pattern or if it was because of your prayers, none of us will know until we all sit with Christ. 

I can assure you that it was as a result of prayer.   Until then it is only subjective. Only in the eyes of those who are not aware of the mind of God in a situation, or the reality of how His word relates to a situation. Paul says that through the Spirit we have the mind of Christ. We can seek to tap into it by faith.

. That God works in response to prayer is true.  Once we extrapolate this we get into fuzzy water.  That being said, I think everyone on this forum would agree that you are doing something that is/could be beneficial.

What would that be in the light of all of my misappropriations and out-of context references? Serious question, counsellor.

Jonathan

 

What do you believe, John? Does God, or does He not, have that power (to dissolve storms)? Can/should Believers pray for God to do that? Does God do anything on earth without prayer from Believers? Izzy

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