"....and others experienced mockings and scourgings, yes, also chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were put to death with the sword, they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated ----" (Heb 12:36-37).
In a message dated 9/28/2004 7:27:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The scriptual reference that God promises his people a 'peaceful dwelling place' needs to be taken in context. Did God make sure there were no mosquitos in this area as well? No poisonous snakes? Did God abolish death and aging in these dwellings? Was it God saying that He would keep them from being attacked by enemies? We live in a world that is as fallen as the rest of us. Creation groans out in travail. Weather is a natural part of creation. That includes a nice gentle shower for your tulips and a massive tornado, some pretty snowflakes and the flash flood.
I would continue to suggest that the story of Jesus rebuking the storm was about something different than weather control for Christians. I think that you may have hit the nail on the head when you mention fear and peace. For the record God (Jesus) was not concerned about the storm in the least. It was the disciples who were concerned.
A contingent universe is one that is based upon and upheld by its Creator. It is created to run self-sufficiently but relies upon Jesus Christ in whom all things move and have their being.
Jonathan Hughes
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judith H Taylor
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 8:31 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Eye of the Storm
I don't have a concordance with me so I can't give the scriptural reference but God does promise his people that they will live in "peaceful dwelling places" with no fear that harm will befall them. I hardly see this as akin to living in the path of one of these deadly storms. Didn't Jesus admonish the disciples for being full of fear when he slept and they trembled during the storm on the sea of Galillee? If God sent that storm surely Jesus wouldn't have thwarted His Will by commanding "Peace, be still!" since he always did and said what he first saw the Father do and say during His earthly ministry. I'm not sure I am where Michael is, but I appreciate him in the Lord and I know passivity and unbelief are not the answer. What is a "contingent universe" (don't have a dictionary here either)?
We are meeting people fleeing these storms everywhere in our travels. Today we are in Buffalo TX and the camper next to us is people who live in Tallahassee FLA. In Arkansas the Campgrounds were full all the way up to Little Rock. To me this gives new meaning to the idea that in the end times men's hearts will fail them for fear. It is escalating. Grace and Peace, judyt
On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:19:39 -0400 "Hughes Jonathan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Hi Michael,
Not that John needs me to defend him in any way but you are constructing your theology from one experience Jesus had with his disciples. I would suggest you re-read the story and ask yourself if the story is really about Jesus dissolving storms or if perhaps the story is narrated to us for a different purpose. To assert that John is a fatalist and actually question whether he is a believer (by the question marks you pose after his signature) is ridiculous. I understand that you are passionate about the topic and desire to see people saved from these dreadful storms. That is all something we on this forum can see and honor you for. What becomes a problem is when you create a theology (read mythology) behind it. When Jesus prays "thy kingdom come' you imply that He is referring to God stopping storms. This is your definition of what the Kingdom would be like. When God tells the Israelites that He 'will heal their land' you imply that this means God will stop storms from assaulting us. This is your definition of a healed land. To imagine that this is what the writers were actually referring to is almost laughable. In a way you have us all by the neck. You can ask if we believe God can do things. All of us will answer yes of course He can. Then you jump to, well than if we pray enough He will. If we don't pray the way you do it is implied that we are guilty of not agreeing with God and scripture. The argument you make is tough for people to get their heads around. It sounds so simple and very matter of factly puts one group in the believers side and the other to the non-believers side. Who wouldn't want to be on the believers side? Terry and John are both believers that hold to the word of God. They believe (as do I) that God created a contingent universe.
Jonathan Hughes
