Slade wrote: > Rationalists believe the Fossil record proves Evolution. Not all rationalists. I have argued this with many scientists on strictly a rational level.
Slade wrote: > I believe it to prove Creation. I'm not sure "prove" is the correct word choice here, but do you believe that the fossil record supports Creation on a logical and rational basis, or on an illogical basis? I consider the fossil record to be one of the strongest logical evidences for the concept of Creation and so have many other rationalists besides me. Slade wrote: > The belief in a God who dies for "sin" and resurrects > to prove his Godhood is idiocy in the extreme to the > rationalist. To "prove" his Godhead? Again, it seems to me that you do not understand that basis of rational thought. Rationalists distinguish between what can be proved and what can be inferred with a high degree of probability. The reason I went into deductive and inductive methods is to try and help those who do not understand logic to understand that logic and proof is not the same thing. I am a rationalist who believes that God dying for sin and his resurrection from the dead to be very logical and rational. You use too large of a brush in categorizing all rationalists into the same category. Those pure rationalists who believe that logic is the only SOURCE of truth would certainly have difficulty, but those rationalists who also believe that knowledge can come through the "nous" (soul / spirit) do not have such difficulties (and I explained why this is in the previous post). Slade wrote: > How does one deal with miracles like walking on > water, raising the dead, instantaneous dramatic > healing? There is nothing about miracles that must be inherently illogical. Just because we lack an understanding of it does not mean that we have to conclude that there is no way to understand it. All we need is more information about it to understand how these things work. Scientists can give example after example of things that previously were attributed to "God" because of a lack of knowledge that now we have very logical understandings about. Slade wrote: > I agree, but try convincing the rational humanist of this. > He will walk over you (or at least try) with his brand > of logic... the logic will work in HIS mind! Yes he will, just as those here in this forum try to walk all over me with their own brand of logic. That does not mean that we cannot use logic to show consistency in our belief. I do this often on college campuses and have impressed many with the idea that faith is rational and logical and not a substitute for rational thought. I usally start such a discourse with a statement to grab their attention. "You are ignorant about what faith is. Your definition of faith is based upon what the world has taught you, and the world knows nothing about faith." That might sound insulting, but when a person speaks in a public forum and is seeking to get some attention for a message, one relies upon such tactics to grab their attention. Of course, they at first think like many of you, "who is this idiot?" But then when I lay out my case, I always get many students who come up afterward expressing a profound appreciation for learning something that helped them understand what they had been struggling with. Of course, the person with whom I debate almost never understand as they are trying to save face and think of their next argument in their favor. But it is the spectators, the onlookers, those twenty or thirty quiet people in the crowd who compare what I say with what my opponent says, and comes away with an understanding that he did not have before. Faith is completely compatible with logic and rational thought. Peace be with you. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
