My main objection was that Izzy characterized yet again that Lance does not give a whit about scripture just because what she believed about the answer to whether Judas is saved or not is made clear in the English version of her text. Izzy has a bee in her bonnet against anyone that she labels a liberal. She thinks that all liberals must view scripture in a way that is far lower than her own exalted view. I called it a scripture bomb. She felt that by throwing out a verse the discussion was over. In reality her misunderstanding of the verse caused her to come to the wrong conclusion. Izzy (and I believe Judy) have made the claim that they do not need to understand Greek or Hebrew because 'the Spirit will lead us into all truth'. This of course is a complete misunderstanding of this verse. All truth does not equal all information. It equals the breaking in upon ourselves by God a revelation of His Son Jesus Christ - the Truth.
I then gave an explanation of how understanding the Greek text behind the verse she quoted from John would allow her to understand why people believe that it is possible that Judas will be in heaven. Following basic grammar I asked her to consider what the words 'keep' mean in Greek (as two are used) to illustrate what it meant when it says that Judas was lost/not kept. Because Izzy was reading it in English she was unable to see that Jesus was not using the word 'keep' in a salvation sense. Think of Jesus' words to Peter, 'Do you love me?' in John 21. Reading in English one would think Jesus uses the same word for love that Peter replies with. But Peter uses phileo while Jesus uses agapao. Without knowing Greek one could easily come to the wrong conclusion about this passage. Knowing the Greek one can exegete it with far more confidence. Hope this helps. Jonathan -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Miller Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 6:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Intentional sin -- the Judas factor Izzy wrote: > I'm from Missouri, so show me specifically > what your objection is please. I am very interested in seeing if Slade or Jonathan will give you an answer in the spirit of meekness. Let's wait and see. In the meantime, patience and peace be upon you, Izzy. :-) David Miller. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.797 / Virus Database: 541 - Release Date: 11/15/2004 ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
