----- Original Message ----- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: December 31, 2004 07:08 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The place of creeds in relation to truth
> Linda:In 'Amening' David on this business of creeds, may I ask: > > 1. When you speak of Jesus what would you mean for us to understand? > 2. Is you RCC family member on an equal footing, 'credally' with yourself? > Why? > 3. Is every person on the face of the globe on an equal footing 'credally' > so long as they, by the Spirit of God, read and believe Scripture? > 4. Is it accurate to speak of both everyone, as per number 3, being > 'correct' when speaking of Jesus' Gospel yet, in another sense, everyone > being 'incorrect'? > 4. If the 'plumbline' for 'truth' is Scripture then: a. is every word that > we use beyong Scripture somehow 'relatived'? b. Is our very choice of any > Scripture over another itself 'relatived' becuase both a & b are a kind of > 'credal' statement? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: December 30, 2004 17:16 > Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The place of creeds in relation to truth > > > > Amen, David. Also keep in mind that creeds can be created and used to > > control other people by forcing them to conform to the beliefs/behaviors > of > > those in authority over them. Izzy > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Miller > > Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 3:16 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [TruthTalk] The place of creeds in relation to truth > > > > Somebody wrote me privately, expressing being mystified from my not > finding > > the creeds of Christendom, such as the Apostles Creed and the Nicene > Creed, > > to be too important. I guess my willingness to deviate from these creeds > > might be somewhat surprising to some. I am choosing to address this > subject > > in this forum because it relates to truth and our communication to one > > another regarding truth and the standards of authority we use for > > determining what is true and what is not. > > > > I consider creeds of any kind to be immature stepping stones on the path > to > > truth. They most likely will fail at some point when knowledge is > increased > > and greater understanding exists. Therefore, I do not hold creeds such as > > the Apostles Creed or the Nicene Creed to be authoritative. Rather, they > > are an effort to establish a truth that is really not yet apprehended by > > all. The truth being established might be known to some but hidden from > > others. Nevertheless, creeds often represent a compromise between > conflict; > > therefore, they ought not be trusted as standards of truth. They are, at > > best, a picture into the consensus of a group of people at one particular > > moment in time. For the most part, I consider a creed the same way I do a > > working hypothesis or theory in the realm of science. It is a tentative > > conclusion that is subject to change. > > > > We do not establish creeds for things that we know with certainty to be > > true. Who has ever heard of a creed that establishes that 2+2=4 or that a > > triangle has three sides, the hypotenuse of which equals the sum of the > > squares of the two remaining sides? We don't mindlessly quote creeds > every > > week that says, what goes up must come down due to the force of gravity, > or > > that the sky is blue, or that the earth rotates around the sun, etc. In > > other words, truth that is known to be true never has any need for a creed > > in order to establish them. From this observation, we must conclude that > > creeds are an immature way of forcing the realization of an idea upon > > others. > > > > Basically, I hold Scripture and reasoning to be something that trumps > > creeds. If Scripture and reasoning goes against a creed, I will consider > > that to be a higher authority than the creed. The creed only holds > > historical value of what people believed at the time, or of what people > who > > continue to embrace the creed believe. But the creed really has no > > authority for me in regards to what is true. This does not mean that it > > carries no weight at all. The weight it carries, however, is primarily > that > > it is the witness of truth given by a large group of people. That large > > group of people, however, might be wrong. It is very possible that their > > lack of knowledge and understanding is what caused them to embrace the > creed > > in the first place. One thing I am certain of, and that is that when > > someone truly apprehends and knows a particular truth, he has no need for > > any creed to declare it. At best, creeds give security to the insecure, > and > > that insecurity is the result of lack of knowledge and understanding. > > Therefore, creeds are immature philosophical steps on the path to truth. > > They do not represent the actual apprehension of truth, but only the > hopeful > > expectation of what might be found once that truth is fully apprehended. > We > > should not fear deviating from creeds. > > > > Peace be with you. > > David Miller. > > > > > > ---------- > > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may > know > > how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > > http://www.InnGlory.org > > > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a > > friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > > > > > > > ---------- > > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may > know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > http://www.InnGlory.org > > > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a > friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
