DAVEH: If that were true, then when God commanded Adam and Eve to populate the world, would the Lord have been commanding A&E to sin?
FUNNY you should ask (you see an opportunity to teach Mormonism)
This is the crux of the LDS problem. LDS do not hesitate to ascribe sinful behavior to the Righteous & Holy God of the Bible.
I hope to create a case that shows that The LDS god can not be the same "Character" as the God of the Bible. And if so just who is this caracter?
THE FALL IS ESSENTIAL: McConkie "It is not possible to believe in Christ and his atoning sacrifice, in the true and full sense required to gain salvation, without at the same time believing and accepting the true doctrine of the fall" New Witness for Articles of Faith p 82
NO CHILDREN WITHOUT TRANSGRESSION
Moses 5:11 And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.
Is transgression Obedience?
This creates a bind that A&E can not avoid.
SIN - eat and bear children
SIN - dont eat but then you can not replenish
IT WAS NECESSARY TO CHOOSE THE LESSER OF TWO EVILS: Evil 1 or 2 for you?
LDS doctrine teaches, the Lord gave Adam two conflicting commandments so that Adam was forced to use his agency to determine what was truly most important.
McConkie, NWAF, p. 91 states the 2 commandments stand in opposition to one another
NOW THE GOD OF MORMONISM GAVE THESE CONFLICTING COMMANDS
The god of mormonism puts A&E in a straight where they must choose one or the other. Either way they must sin. This is not the caharacter of the God of the Bible.
1) GOD SAID
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Moses 2:28 And I, God, blessed them, and said unto them: Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth
(So they must eat of the tree to be able to replenish)
2) GOD ALSO SAID Don't eat of the Tree that was necessary for Child bearing
Gen 2:16-17 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Is this a suggestion? Is it a good idea? Is it a preference for God?
(If they do not eat they can not bear children & thus can not replenish)
SEE IF THIS SOUNDS LIKE THE RIGHTEOUS JUDGE OF ALL THE EARTH
2 Nephi 2:22-25 And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, ... And they would have had no children; ... But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who aknoweth all things. Adam fell that men might be; and men care, that they might have joy.
And to bring about his eternal purposes in the end of man, ... it must needs be that there was an opposition; even the forbidden fruit in opposition to the tree of life; the one being sweet and the other bitter. Wherefore, the Lord God gave unto man that he should act for himself. Wherefore, man could not act for himself save it should be that he was enticed by the one or the other." (2 Nephi 2:11-16.) Thus we see why the Lord gave two conflicting commandments -- one to become mortal and have children, the other to not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil out of which mortality and children and death would result. The issue is one of choosing between opposites. Adam must choose to become mortal so he could have children, on the one hand; on the other hand, he must choose to remain forever in the garden in a state of innocence. He chose to partake of the
forbidden fruit so that the purposes of God might be accomplished by providing a probationary estate for his spirit children. Adam must needs fall so that he would know good from evil, virtue from vice, righteousness from wickedness. He could not have done this without breaking a law and becoming subject to sin. He chose the Lord's way; there was no other way whereby salvation might come unto the children of men." (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p.91)
McConkie, NWAF, p. 91 states the 2 commandments stand in opposition to one another.
"For reasons that have not been revealed, this transition, or "fall," could not happen without a transgression-an exercise of moral agency amounting to a willful breaking of a law (see Moses 6:59). This would be a planned offense, a formality to serve an eternal purpose. The Prophet Lehi explained that "if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen" but would have remained in the same state in which he was created (2 nephi 2:22). Missionary Preparation, Religion 130 p 74 Lesson 10
What lord is this? Adam chose to sin to fulfill god's purpose? God wanted Adam to sin? God wanted Adam to taste death? God wanted Adam to sin so he could understand Right? God planned a willful breaking of a law? God placed Adam in a situation that forced him to sin? God wanted Adam to PARTAKE of what God had FORBIDDEN? Why even forbid it? This does not make sense. God wants obedience and he hates sin! Sin is not, just a formality? What lord are we talking of here? The god of this world? The Angel of light?
The "Most correct book" on Earth says
Moses 3:16-17 And I, the Lord God, commanded the man, saying: Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat, But of the tree of the aknowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it, nevertheless, thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee; but, remember that I forbid it, for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
God would say choose for yourself? Choose sin1 or sin2?
"Thou shall NOT...thou mayest choose"? Is this God talking out of both sides of his mouth?
Are Adam & Eve Homo Sapiens?
"Children of Men" is a phrase used in reference to ALL Homo Sapiens.
1 Nephi 3:7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.
So here the mormon god says but never provides a way except thru disobedience one way or the other.
Is it 2 "commandments" that conflict or is it NO commandments without preparing a way to accomplish them? What was the way that was prepared to accomplish BOTH of God's commands? SIN?
NOT A SIN in the STRICT SENSE
Doctrines of Salvation p114 "'TRANSGRESSION' NOT 'SIN' OF ADAM," Mormon apostle and prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr. wrote, "I never speak of the part Eve took in this fall as a sin, nor do I accuse Adam of a sin". On page 115, "This was a transgression of the law, but not a sin in the strict sense, for it was something that Adam and Eve had to do!". "The 'fall' of Adam and Eve was not a sin but an essential act upon which mortality depends" Smith Answers to Gospel Questions v 5 p15.
Again the Righteous & Holy God of the Bible would never say such a thing!
SIN is a transgression of the Law!
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
If death is the wages of sin Romans 6:23, and Adam's and Eve's action was not actually sin, then why did it introduce death into the world in Romans 5:12?
The God of the BoM FORCES people into a double bind and invites them to choose sin1 or sin2
Moses 3:16-17. "choose for thyself"
Eve acted "with intent to act contrary to the divine command" Articles of Faith Talmage p63
The God of the Book of Mormon made Adam & Eve to sin. He INVITES & ENTICES to SIN. There was no other way, than to disobey him
WHO IS THIS CHARACTER THAT ENTICES TO SIN?
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Moroni 7:12 Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.
James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Is Adam a man? Then let NO MAN say he is tempted of God!
The true God does not tempt men!
Temptation to do evil surely does not come from God!
This is NOT in the character of the One true and HOLY God!
Who is this character??????????
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