Kevin Deegan wrote:
DAVE: ??? I consider it important to consider what Son of man means. Try separating Son from
man. Think of the man part as being a heavenly man, who is exalted
rather than a lowly earth type man who is a sinner.
Show me just ONE time in the Bible, where the Son of Man refers
to the Father & I will eat my Truth Horn
DAVEH: Where did you get that idea, Kevin? Son of Man refers
to Jesus, and I stipulated such several days ago. What I am trying to
point out to you is the root meaning of Son of Man....in that
Jesus' Father is a man who has been exalted and now resides in
heaven. That's why he is called Heavenly Father, which is distinctly
different than the Son of Man. Heavenly Father is the Man part
of the title for Jesus, who is the Son of Man.
Am I confusing you more, Kevin?
Kevin Deegan wrote:
Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Kevin Deegan wrote:
Be glad to discuss this with you.
To start let's look at John chapter 3 verse 13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came
down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Do you agree:
1) Jesus was the one who said this
DAVEH: Yes.
KD says OK
2) Jesus is the "Son of Man"
DAVEH: Yes again.
KD says OK
Do you believe Jesus is literally the Son of Man, Kevin?
Was Jesus the son of a woman? Yes, I think you would believe so as
well. Then do you believe Son of Man and son of woman are
synonymous, Kevin?
KD says WOOOOAH!
DAVEH: Am I losing you on this one, Kevin? Let me put it another
way. Jesus is the Son of [an exalted] Man [of
Holiness] who remained in heaven when Jesus came to the earth. Does
that help?
Do you believe Jesus' Father in Heaven is a man? I
suspect not..... Then why do you think he was considered the Son
of Man? Could his father be a man?
KD says It is too deep for you
if you can't even follow this, besides you cahnged the subject
DAVEH: To me it seems simple....Jesus is the Son of Man. You
apparently agree with that. You just think the Man part
applies to his earthly heritage. I believe the Man refers to
his Heavenly Father's heritage, as his Father in Heaven is a Holy
Man who is exalted.
Then the question is;
Read the verse and tell me:
Where was the "Son of Man"?
DAVEH: I'd say the Son (Jesus) was on the earth, while the
Man (his Father in Heaven) was in heaven. I think that is well
illustrated in the baptism of Jesus (Mt 3:17) when.....
Kevin says your Mormon
indoctrination is showing.
DAVEH: Yes, I have always admitted my LDS bias.
let's work on the original
subject and I will be glad to revisit this and answer your questions.
Read the verse again:
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from
heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
KD says Again WHERE is the son
of man NOT who or what is the Son of man
DAVE: ??? I consider it important to consider what Son of man means. Try separating Son
from man. Think of the man part as being a heavenly man, who is
exalted rather than a lowly earth type man who is a sinner.
Who came down from Heaven? Who
will ascend? Who is IN Heaven? The SUBJECT of this English sentence is
the "Son of Man" Jesus Christ
DAVEH: Just consider what Son of Man implies.
I believe it is suggesting that Jesus has a divine heritage that comes
from a holy man....his Father in Heaven.
Hint: the son of man came down
to earth and stands speaking saying the son of man is in heaven.
DAVEH: I am suggesting you ponder if he didn't really mean it to be
understood as.......
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came
down from heaven, even the Son of [that
holy exalted] man which is [remaining]
in heaven.
Jesus Christ is EVERYWHERE
Present
DAVEH: I respectfully disagree, Kevin. IF he
were EVERYWHERE Present,
then why did he descend into hell after his death?.....or, why did he
ascend up to heaven after his death? If he were already there, would
it have been necessary for him to either descend, or ascend?
Are there any other passages that you feel validate your theory
that God is omnipresent?
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son,
in whom I am well pleased.
........clearly indicates Jesus' Heavenly Father was the one in heaven,
while Jesus was on the earth. Do you disagree, Kevin? If so....do you
think Jesus was using a ventriloquism to project the voice from
heaven?
BTW........I am very interested to know if you believe Jesus is
literally the Son of Man, Kevin. And...how do you contrast
that to him being the Son of Woman? Do you believe Jesus' father is a
man?
Kevin Deegan wrote:
Jesus is Revealed in the Holy Bible as OMNIPRESENT
John 3 the son of man who came down and yet is IN
Heaven
DAVEH: I guess you'll have to spell it out for me, Kevin. I see
nothing in ch 3 that lends support to your theory.
God the Father is Revealed the Holy Bible as
OMNIPRESEN
Does he not fill Heaven & Earth?
These are clear teachings of the Bible
DAVEH: Give me some Bible references, and the let's discuss it.
not some Church council or some Prophet.
All I need is a 5th grade education so I can read
the Old Black Book
DAVEH: I'll ask you the same question I asked John........How much of
what you believe about the omnipresence of God is based on the
T-Doctrine?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated
1/21/2005 7:24:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
DAVEH: ??? Why do you think Jesus is omnipresent
Well, because He is God.
DAVEH: But why do you define God as omnipresent? Is it due to the
T-Doctrine?
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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