You are free to think whatever you like - it's not unusual for people twist God's Word every kind of way. jt
On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 02:39:24 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
In a message dated 2/4/2005 10:49:08 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If I twist the scriptures, you wrote the book on that activity. And what is accomplished in this particular exchange? Nothing. What I just said is as shameful as your accusation. What you see as "twisting" is, in reality, an honest but perhaps failing effort on my part to either express what I believe or to actually understand what God intends to be saying to me now. As I see it, the question does not center itself around "what is honest," but "what is dishonest." It is dishonest to assume that one is right to the exclusion of the possibility of being wrong. That is dishonest. It is dishonest to deny the very heart of the gospel messsage -- that we all continue to possess sin and and that the blood continually flows in dealing with this problem. That is heresy. It is blatantly dishonest to deny the Lord's concern for unity. He would be in tears over what happens on this sight among those who claim to be disciples. Can he save in spite of all this failure? Absolutely. but soteriological realities do not mean that we are brethren ----------------- something that I have recently learned. The prodical and his brother did not have much in common, did they. Both were equally immature and in need of the Father's love and patience -- a lesson that completely lost to most who read that passage.
jt: Surprised you would say this Jn, what about the "incarnation?" Nothing I write to you or anyone else is written as a slur per se; because it is important to me to walk in love so you are reading something into the text which was never intended by the author.
JD: We have nothing in common Judy -- your little slurs not withstanding.
I do not believe a word of the above paragraph. I counsel couples often who justify their angry or otherwise worthless speech with the phrase, "this is not my intent." As a counselor, I get absolutely nothing accomplished [with couple's reconciliation] if I allow that explanation. Nothing. I have to look that person in the eye and disagree. What we do ON A CONSISTENT BASIS - AS A WAY OF LIFE, AS A PRACTICE, is a near perfect representation of what we truly believe. Where it does not rise to the level of justification, it is the only avenue for meaningful reconciliation between couples. I do not accept this as an explanation -- "I did not intend ..." That is the incorrect response. The correct response, by the way, is "I am sorry and I will commit to trying much harder to respect not only your feelings but your very person [in Christ or in this marriage]." If a marriage has a partner that will not come to this point in the conversation, you have a marriage that has already failed. The percentage figures for success in such cases -- marital success -- is zero. That is what I tell them in session. And that is what I am telling you.
jt: I wouldn't blame DavidM for every problem here - He's only the List Creator/Owner. Do you hold God personally responsible for everything that has gone wrong with His Creation?
JD: The fact of the matter is this: under Miller's leadership or lack thereof, this forum is grossly embedded in tension and cultisms.
You equate God and Miller? You deny leadership accountability? Whatever.
jt: He never went anywhere Jn. He has been here all along - always giving loving oversight - which is usually criticized before it is rejected.
Not one thing has improved under his leadership, upon his return. Facts are facts.
Miller was off list for two or three months.
jt: Not for the redeemed. I am one of the redeemed (by His grace) and I am saying so...
And pearls before swine thing -- well, the knife cuts both ways, my dear.
Well, there you have it. Judy says she is part of the redeemed and thats that. The judgment with which you judge others is the very judgment you will and are experiencing. That is biblical.
jt: Thanks but no thanks (for me anyway) - you would be praying contrary to God's will for me.
I will pray for you, Linda, poor undereducated Deegan and mIller.
I do not pray for your approval.
jt: I'm not sure what you mean by the above since you believe we are all such a mess.
There is a great deal of potential in your allance and in each, individually.
This is not "I am right and you are wrong." We are both a mess. But, of course, your comments above were only about continuing the debate. i meant what I said and will be happy to explain at an appropriate time.
Your immersion into the Christ of grace will be my prayer. JD
jt: I don't want to be immersed into what you've become part of John, so far as I can tell it is a downhill slide, you were much nicer when you first joined TT or at the start.
Sorry you feel this way. Really. But being nice and being honest is no longer an option for me. You, Shields, Miller and Deegan are quick to challenge one's unique thinking on this forum as heretical, blind, blasphemous, corrupt, of the flesh ----------------------- all your words at one time or another. You have never been nice. And so we will deal with each other in the future as opponents, openly and honestly. The cultish attitudes and teachings of the four of you is something that needs to be on the table. And there it is. Its kind of maddening being on the defensive, isn't it Judy?
