Re: [TruthTalk] vessels meet for masters use

Sat, 19 Feb 2005 09:43:36 -0800

Yes jesus priestly function is an important one. but what does that have to do with the actual act of redmption and the Atonement?
If he had lived a perfect life No Sin No sins of Commision or Omiision No error
and had He not been offered as our sacrifice we would have NO REDEMPTION. There is a necessity for the DEATH of the testator! Without the shedding of Blood NO REMISSION The efficacious portion of the work was done on Calvalry as we have seen in the Holy Bible
 
It has nothing to do with a violent death as some Greek scholars err, nor is it to do with his life as the Satanic Alice Bailey says. 
http://www.lucistrust.org/ (used to be LUCIFER TRUST!)
http://laluni.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/bethlehem/beth1063.html
"The effort to carry out to perfection the will of God brought to an end the most complete life that had been lived on earth."
 
This is the stuff Heresy is made of
See Celestial messages Here we have evil spirits talking thru spirit channellers saying the same thing!
http://new-birth.net/tgrabjvol1/bible51.htm  For nearly two thousand years this false doctrine of the atonement has been believed in and accepted by the so called Christian churches, and has been promulgated by these churches as the true doctrine of Jesus and the one upon which the salvation of man depends; and the consequences have been that men have believed that the only things necessary to their salvation and reconciliation to God, were the death of Jesus and the washing away of their sins by the blood shed on Calvary.

If men only knew how futile his death was and how inefficacious his blood is to wash away sin and pay the debt to the Father, they would not rest in the assurance that all they have to do is to believe in this sacrifice and this blood, but would learn the true plan of salvation and make every effort in their power to follow that plan, and as a consequence, have their souls developed so that they would come into harmony with the Father's love and laws

http://www.divinelove.org TRUE GOSPEL REVEALED ANEW BY JESUS?

http://www.christianway.org/CS%20and%20the%20Bible/Jesus.htm                      Christian Science: Jesus Christ has a dual nature � Jesus the mortal man and Christ the spiritual idea of man.  Jesus is the human man, and Christ is the divine idea; hence, the duality of Jesus the Christ.� (Science and Health, 473:10-17)

CS The efficacy of the crucifixion lay in the practical affection and goodness it demonstrated for mankind. The truth had been lived among men; but until they saw that it enabled their Master to triumph over the grave, his own disciples could not admit such an event to be possible. . . .

CS The efficacy of Jesus� spiritual offering is infinitely greater than can be expressed by our sense of human blood. The material blood of Jesus was no more efficacious to cleanse from sin when it was shed upon �the accursed tree,� than when it was flowing in his veins as he went daily about his Father�s business.� (Science and Health, 24:20-31, 25:3-9)

CS �One sacrifice, however great, is insufficient to pay the debt of sin. The atonement requires constant self-immolation on the sinner�s part

http://www.cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/aquinas/acreed10.htm

THE COMMUNION OF SAINTS We must also know that not only the efficacy of the Passion of Christ is communicated to us, but also the merits of His life; and, moreover, all the good that all the Saints have done is communicated to all who are in the state of grace, because all are one: "I am a partaker of all them that fear Thee."[16] Therefore, he who lives in charity participates in all the good that is done in the entire world; but more specially does he benefit for whom some good work is done; since one man certainly can satisfy for another.[17] Thus, through this communion we receive two benefits. One is that the merits of Christ are communicated to all; the other is that the good of one is communicated to another. Those who are excommunicated, however, because they are cut off from the Church, forfeit their part

http://www.spandayoga.org/grace.html  It is God�s Grace that leads you to the Master, known as a Siddha, Guru or Acharya, who is the grace-bestowing power of God, and a Teacher. And it is the Master�s Grace that sets you on your own path back to God. Grace is the beginning, the middle and the end. Nothing can be accomplished without Grace.
Once you have learned to recognize Grace, you are able to follow it, allowing Grace to uplift and transform your life.

I care not to Believe Doctrines of Devils
"without shedding of blood is no remission"
http://cnview.com/on_line_resources/when_i_see_the_blood.htm
Friend, it is not thine experience-it is the blood. God did not say, "When I see your experience," but, "When I see the blood of Christ." Acquire experience, cultivate the Christian graces. But, oh, do not put them where Christ's blood ought to be.
 

Bill Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I think you are viewing this too restrictively, Kevin. I hope you will come to consider it in a broader context. May I ask you a couple questions? What kind of a priest would Christ be, had he not learned obedience through the things he suffered? Does this suffering apply only to his death? I think not: "For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted."
 
Hebrews 2.14-18: "Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted."

His redemptive work certainly culminated into a great climax at the cross -- but it did not consist only of the cross. For instance, as we see in these verses, the propitiation which he secured at the cross must be viewed as inclusive of the entirety of his life; for where would we be today without his priestly mediation? and how could he be our merciful and faithful High Priest, had he not in all things been made like his brethren to make propitiation for our sins? 

"Though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, called by God as High Priest . . ." (Heb 5.8-10).

Anyway, I hope you will consider this. I will not push it any further.

Bill 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] vessels meet for masters use

To sin once is to be guilty of breaking ALL the law!
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Which would make Him guilty and fit for HELL FIRE.
it was His death that ATONED for MY sin
"Without the shedding of blood is no remission"
 
No matter how nice one may or may not seem. Before I was Born Again I was an ENEMY of God
Rm 6 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son
RM 3 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins
Col 1 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins
Hebrews How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. ...
without shedding of blood is no remission
 
So we see we are reconciled by His death
We are justified by His blood
We are Redeemed thru His blood
He is the propitiation thru FAITH in His blood

D A Waite The Bible is silent as to "HIS WHOLE LIFE" as forming any basis whatever for "THE REDEMPTIVE EFFICACY OF CHRIST'S WORK." It was as the "LAMB OF GOD" that He could "take away the sin of the world" (John 1:29), and this "LAMB" was crucified and shed His precious blood (1 Peter 1:18-19) as the atonement and sacrifice for the sins of the whole world! "Without the shedding of blood is no remission" (Hebrews 9:22). To say that Christ's "WHOLE LIFE" had anything to do with the "REDEMPTIVE EFFICACY OF CHRIST'S WORK" is to partake of the HERESY of modernistic religious APOSTASY!



Bill Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Westcott believed that the redemptive efficacy of Christ's work was to be "found in his whole life" rather than in his death.
 
I am somewhat perplexed as to the "offense" of the above, Kevin. I understand that you do not hold to the same view as I, concerning the inward nature of Christ's humanity, but Westcott's belief seems to be a "true" even under your view. What would it have done to the redemptive efficacy of Christ's work if he had sinned at some point throughout his life? Was it not via his whole obedience that he fulfilled the Law? It seems to me that obedience to the Law was very much a part of his redemptive work. Do you disagree?
 
Bill 
----- Original Message -----
From: Lance Muir
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] vessels meet for masters use

Yes, unequivically! He uses 'rascals' like those on TT so..............?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: February 19, 2005 08:19
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] vessels meet for masters use

Would God use rascals like these in the translation or for that matter any of his work?

The new versions come from W&H's contrived text.

First Nazi's, then Perverts and now Heretics as the Fathers of the Modern translations.

http://wayoflife.org/otimothy/tl09000c.htm

Westcott and Hort held a vague or erroneous position on inspiration, revelation, or inerrancy.
Westcott embraced the heresy of the universal Fatherhood of God.
Westcott denies that God had to be propitiated.
Westcott taught that men could be divine in some way.
Westcott espoused evolution in various ways.
Westcott had a heretical theory of man's sinfulness and depravity, believing in man's perfectibility in various ways.
Westcott and Hort failed to affirm the personality of the Devil, calling him only a power.
Westcott and Hort denied that Heaven is a place, speaking of it as a state.
Westcott believed that the redemptive efficacy of Christ's work was to be "found in his whole life" rather than in his death.
Westcott questioned the eternal preexistence of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Westcott and Hort denied the deity of Jesus Christ.
Westcott explained away some of the miracles of Christ.
Westcott and Hort denied or gave a false meaning to the literal, bodily resurrection of Christ.
Westcott and Hort had a false and heretical view of the vicarious, substitutionary sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ.

http://www.picknowl.com.au/homepages/rlister/wh/wh.htm

Westcott: "My faith is still wavering. I cannot determine how much we must believe; how much, in fact, is necessarily required of a member of the Church." (Life, Vol.I, p.46).
Westcott: "After leaving the monastery we shaped our course to a little oratory...It is very small, with one kneeling-place; and behind a screen was a 'Pieta' the size of life (i.e. a Virgin and dead Christ)...I could not help thinking on the grandeur of the Romish Church, on her zeal even in error, on her earnestness and self-devotion, which we might, with nobler views and a purer end, strive to imitate. Had I been alone I could have knelt there for hours." (Life, Vol.I, p.81).
Westcott: "All stigmatise him (a Dr. Hampden) as a 'heretic,'...I thought myself that he was grievously in error, but yesterday I read over the selections from his writings which his adversaries make, and in them I found systematically expressed the very strains of thought which I have been endeavouring to trace out for the last two or three years. If he be condemned, what will become of me?" (Life, Vol.I,p.94).
 
Hort: "But the book which has most engaged me is Darwin. Whatever may be thought of it, it is a book that one is proud to be contemporary with. I must work out and examine the argument in more detail, but at present my feeling is strong that the theory is unanswerable." (Life, Vol.I, p.416).
 Hort: "I entirely agree - correcting one word - with what you there say on the Atonement, having for many years believed that "the absolute union of the Christian (or rather, of man) with Christ Himself" is the spiritual truth of which the popular doctrine of substitution is an immoral and material counterfeit...Certainly nothing can be more unscriptural than the modern limiting of Christ's bearing our sins and sufferings to His death; but indeed that is only one aspect of an almost universal heresy." (Life, Vol.I, p.430).
Hort: "I have been persuaded for many years that Mary-worship and 'Jesus'-worship have very much in common in their causes and their results." (Life, Vol.II, p.50).

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