Caroline: > But what did the OT writers and readers understand > sheol to be?
They had various understandings of it just as the writers and readers of today have different understandings. Caroline wrote: > And what did the first century Jew understand > Hades to be? Did Jesus spend some time explaining how > it is different from say, Greek mythology which is where the > word comes from, or did he just let people decide for > themselves what it means? Jesus gave us a greater understanding of it, explaining the torture and damnation that characterizes it. Prior to the revelation of Jesus Christ, it was primarily viewed as a place where all departed spirits went to await judgment, or if you were a Sadducee who did not believe in spirits and angels, then Sheol or Hades was simply symobolic for the grave. Jesus made it clear that he had little use for the way that the Sadducees approached Scripture. Caroline wrote: > Jesus gave us nearly all his teachings on hell in > parable form and we have to be careful in making > doctrinal statements based on his parables. Why? Jesus considered parables to be the best way to share his doctrine. We would do well to base doctrine upon his parables. Matthew 13:34-35 (34) All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: (35) That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world. Caroline wrote: > The apostles wrote a lot of propositional statements. > Jesus said that we'll be judged by what we do > (Matthew 25:31-46) but Paul says salvation is by grace > through faith (Eph 2:8). Paul also taught that we will be judged by what we have done. 2 Corinthians 5:9-11 (9) Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. (10) For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. (11) Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. Romans 2:4-11 (4) Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? (5) But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; (6) Who will render to every man according to his deeds: (7) To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: (8) But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, (9) Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; (10) But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: (11) For there is no respect of persons with God. Paul never taught that we are saved by faith alone, as you erroneously represented him. Theologians like Martin Luther suggested this myth, inserting this word "alone" into his translation, and many Christians have blindly embraced the concept, not rightly dividing the Word of God. Peter warned about this problem in 2 Peter 3:16. Caroline wrote: > Jesus said some people who called him Lord and did > great things in his name won't be saved (Matt. 7:21-23) > but Paul said anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord > will be saved (Rom. 10:13) and he was quoting Joel 2:32 > so the LORD is YHWH. Those who say, "Lord, Lord" and those who call upon the name of the Lord in faith to obey him are two different things. Caroline wrote: > Jesus denounced Capernaum and said the city will be sent > to hell and judged more harshly than Sodom (Matt 11:23-24) > but Paul says all of Israel will be saved (Rom 11:26). Paul was speaking about the time at the end of this age whereas Jesus was speaking about the present day Capernaum which is now no longer a city. The Messianic movement today is part of God's method of fulfillment of this prophecy. Caroline wrote: > Jesus said we have to be alert and ready till the end because > all the virgins were in the wedding party but only the wise > ones made it (Matt. 25). John said no one can snatch a saved > one out of the Father's hand (John 10:28) Obviously, those who are not alert and ready are not in the Father's hand. Caroline wrote: > We have to use Paul's & John's statements to interprete the > parables AND we have to use the parables to flesh out their > statements. It is only then we'll have the full picture of what > Jesus meant when he talked about the kingdom, about > judgment and about hell. Jesus, Paul, and John all taught the same doctrine. Paul and John received their doctrine from Jesus Christ. You can manufacture contradictions in their statements, or you can read them and through the Holy Spirit receive the revelation of their message. Caroline wrote: > But just in case Paul is coming across as too bleeding > heart liberal, Paul does not appear to be a bleeding heart liberal to me. He looks like a Bible thumping conservative from where I sit. Caroline wrote: > ... he also listed a bunch of people that won't inherit the > kingdom of God (1 Cor. 6: 9-10) although he did softened > it with the next breath by saying that's what we all were > but Jesus saved us anyway. Yeah, I guess the man's soft. Paul does not sound soft at all to me. If a Christian continued in any of the things he mentioned, he instructed the church not to have fellowship with them, not to eat or drink with them, until they repented and stopped their sin. Such WERE some of you, not such ARE some of you. I have not known any liberals to have this attitude that Paul had toward sinners pretending to be Christians. In fact, not too many conservatives I know are so rough on sinners. Caroline, I appreciate you sharing your knowledge of Scripture. You seem to have a little more depth than some of the liberal theologians here. I am hopeful to have some interesting discussions in the future as we get to understand better your knowledge in Christ. As I perceive you already understand, it really is all about our relationship in Christ, and that relationship will then shape our perceptions to allow us to express an aspect of Christ that is somewhat unique yet joined to the rest of the body of Christ. Peace be with you. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
