Re: [TruthTalk] God's Hate and God's Wrath

[Judy Taylor]

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 06:00:17 -0600 "Caroline Wong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: There is a difference between God's hate and God's wrath. And neither is enduring as His love. Your quote of Psalm 7:11 is a mistake in translation in the KJV. Psalm 7:11 (NASB) God is a righteous judge. And a God who has indignation everyday. This is straining at gnats Caroline; the same Heb word for angry used in Psalm 7:11 is used in Proverbs 25:23, should we change this to indignation also? Because a translation is newer is no indication of accuracy. Psalm 5:4,5: "For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness, neither dahll evil dwell with thee. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight; thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou shall destroy them that speak leasing, the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man"  1 John 4:8 Whoever does not love does not know God because God is love Yes God is love, he is also the 'righteous Judge' and vengeance belongs to Him so we shouldn't stop with the story only half told. Lamentations 3:22 Because of the LORD's great love we're not consumed, for his compassions never fail. Jeremiah wrote this while he and Israel were suffering judgment and wrath. Yes, in the midst of wrath, Jeremiah still knew God is love because His wrath is an _expression_ of love. It is love thwarted by rebellion. Jeremiah was the prophet and these are God's Covenant ppl. in spite of the fact that they have broken the covenant they have with Him. Even Moses himself was not sacrosant.  God tried to kill him on the way to Egypt because he had also broken covenant by not circumcising his son. His Midianite wife Zipporah had to get him straight (see Genesis 17:14; Exodus 4:25,26).  Yes God is love but there is another side to his nature and character that we ignore to our own peril. Would you like a couple of instances where people's suffering made God relent in judgment and wrath?  David was suppose to die for his sin but God let him live because he repented. His infant son died instead. David knew enough about God's grace that he continued to petition Him as his son was dying. And David knew his son was with God and he said, "I will go to him, but he will not return to me." How can you be sure David was not just talking about the grave when he made the statement above? David counted his fighting men and "God sent an angel to destroy Jerusalem. But as the angel was doing so, the LORD saw it and was grieved because of the calamity and said to the angel who was destroying the people, "Enough! Withdraw your hand." 1 Chron. 21:14 Don't forget that this was only after the angel had already destroyed 70,000 fighting men - I guess love and mercy depends on where one is when the angel made the cut. Consider too that Jesus is our fullest revelation of God. He could have stoned the woman caught in adultery since He himself is without sin. If God is all about hating sins and sinners, He should have stoned her to show the world He is serious about sins. But He rescued her, forgave her and urged her to sin no more - all very loving actions. If he stoned her Caroline He would have had to execute judgment on her accusers also but that was not the time. He came the first time to show us another way.  When he comes again it will be with the sword to execute judgment against sin. Consider too how Jesus died. God is saying no matter what you do, I will not abandon you and climb down from the cross. God loves those who love Him - if we choose to abandon Him by clinging to our fallenness and sin, he will abandon us by our own choice. God's wrath: His love as seen by us in our rebellion and sin. It is Love in pursuit to restore and redeem. "Man's anger does not bring about the righteous life God that God desires" James 1:20 because our anger is destructive. God's wrath is tempered with grace and mercy and aimed as restoration. You have twisted James 1:20 to mean something that was not intended Caroline. Our human anger does not produce the righteousness of God in the lives of others and this is what James is saying here. He is instructing believers to be slow to wrath; he gives no instruction regarding the wrath of God. God's hate: Anything that is opposite to His nature which is love. Our hate is an active desire to will evil on another person. God can neither plan nor do evil. His hate is different from ours. That's interesting since His Word says "I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I the Lord do all these things" (Isaiah 45:7) - I wonder if there is a new translation that can manipulate this into something else. Caroline, I appreciate your intent and know you are well meaning, but you are negating the part of God's nature and character you don't like and making Him into something other than what He is and this is just as much error as those who make Him all hate and wrath sans love. Grace and Peace, Judyt .