Re: [TruthTalk] God's Hate and God's Wrath

[Kevin Deegan]

"I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I the Lord do all these things" (Isaiah 45:7)

Caroline: This is also a mistake in translation in the KJV. The Lord does NOT create evil. The correct translation is "disaster" NIV or "calamity" NASB.

 

How many mistakes are there? Can we really trust the book with all those mistakes, there may be more.

Same word as in Genesis God created "CREATE" H1254 בּרא  bârâ' baw-raw' A primitive root; (absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes): - choose, create (creator), cut down, dispatch, do, make (fat).

"EVIL"  H7451  רעה רע  ra‛ râ‛âh  rah, raw-aw'  From H7489; bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun: - adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease (-ure), distress, evil ([-favouredness], man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief (-vous), harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief, (-vous), misery, naught (-ty), noisome, + not please, sad (-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked (-ly, -ness, one), worse (-st) wretchedness, wrong. [Including feminine ra�ah; as adjective or noun.]

 

So the Lord does not create evil but He does create DISASTER and CALAMITY?

You see a lot of mistakes in the Bible, do you know the Greek & Hebrew?

I did not know you were a Hebrew scholar!

 

Jesus & the disciples many times quoted OT Scripture do you have any examples of Jesus saying "this is an unfortunate rendering of the Hebrew" or a "better translation" would be?

Any examples of Jesus saying even though it says _______ it really means _______?

 

Because of Mens hearts that want to twist the rules most Legal Contracts have to spend time on and insert a section just on "definitions" of words lest one try to wiggle around the terms spelled out therein. Woe unto you lawyers! It depends on what the definition of IS IS!

Do you have a job with a boss? Do you say he said to do such & such but he clearly meant for me to do this instead?

 

CAROLINE Consider these two translations side by side and see how KJV aims at the person and that was an error in translation

Psalm 7:11 KJV "God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day."

 

"ANGRY" Strong's H2194 זעם zâ‛am zaw-am' A primitive root; properly to foam at the mouth, that is, to be enraged: - abhor, abominable, (be) angry, defy, (have) indignation.

Seems it is VERY Personal & very ANGRY. Nothing amiss in the translation.

 Psa 5:5 ^{The foolish shall not stand in thy sight:thou hatest all workers of iniquity.}

"HATEST" H8130 שׂנא   śânê' saw-nay'  A primitive root; to hate (PERSONALY ): - enemy, foe, (be) hate (-ful, -r), odious, X utterly.

This is the same Hebrew word used here:

Psa 139:21  Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
Again nothing wrong with the translation, are you perhaps trying to align God's word to your Theology by

1) changing the clear meanings of words to your own preference

2) rejecting the clear meanings of the words in the KJV and searching for a more humanly acceptable toned down translation of the word?

 

Psalm 97:10--"Ye who love the LORD, hate evil."

Lev 20:23 And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred THEM.

Prov 6 These six things doth the LORD hate...A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

Question God hates something that has FEET, HANDS, a HEART, and a TONGUE. What is it? Does God hate just pride, lying, murder, wickedness, & mischief? Why does he attach Human attributes to these sins?

Hos 9:15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated THEM: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive THEM out of mine house, I will love THEM no more: all their princes are revolters.

God hates what? "THEM"

God does not punish SIN He punishes SINNERS! he does not bind up SIN and cast it into the FIRE, He casts SINNERS into it.

As PURELY as God LOVES He also HATES

A Sheppard loves sheep but Hates Wolves, a gardener Loves flowers hates weeds. As as surely as the gardener plucks the weeds to cast them aside God himself will cast the wicked into HELL with out any more thought than the gardener has towards weeds.

PS 88:5 Free among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand.

PS 34:16 The face of the LORD is AGAINST THEM that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.

Caroline Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi Judy;

 

Consider these two translations side by side and see how KJV aims at the person and that was an error in translation

Psalm 7:11 KJV "God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day."

Psalm 7:11 NASB "God is a righteous judge. And a God who has indignation every day."

You just stepped into a middle of a conversation where I was making a case that God is usually angry with sin in the person but rarely with the person. Kevin used the above verse as part of a proof that to hate the sin and love the sinner is not biblical. I suppose you feel same and have no qualms about hating both sinner and sin.

 

Judy:If he stoned her Caroline He would have had to execute judgment on her accusers also but that was not the time. He came the first time to show us another way.  When he comes again it will be with the sword to execute judgment against sin.

 

Caroline: Now why would stoning the women caught in adultery mean he would have to stone her accusers as well? They were not caught in sin and they were obedient to the Law. Isn't Jesus judge as well as saviour?

 

Judy: God loves those who love Him - if we choose to abandon Him by clinging to our fallenness and sin, he will abandon us by our own choice.

 

Caroline: Were you always raised in a Christian home, Judy? I wasn't. So I know for sure that He loved me when I was His enemy and He pursued me as a Father and as a Lover. Being raised in a non Christian home was one of the best gifts possible. The fact that my earthly father is a good and loving man despite being an atheist and losing his father at the age of 9 is a true blessing and a direct intervention of God as I don't believe any human can love without God's help. I've been a part of Christianity and churches for 2 decades and sometimes when I see how some Christians treat their kids, I thank God I was not raised that way.

 

Judy: That's interesting since His Word says "I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I the Lord do all these things" (Isaiah 45:7) - I wonder if there is a new translation that can manipulate this into something else.

 

Caroline: This is also a mistake in translation in the KJV. The Lord does NOT create evil. The correct translation is "disaster" NIV or "calamity" NASB. That part of the verse says that God decides whether we live in good times or bad. The first part must be read in light (no pun intended) of the verses just before it. Darkness is NOT evil. It is about secret places. v. 3 says (in the KJV no less) "I will give you the treasures of darkens and the hoards in secret places, that you may know that it is I, the LORD, the God of Israel, who call you by your name."

 

So Judy, have you received any treasures of darkness? Do you hold them close to your heart? Take them out and meditate on them? Give thanks to the Lord, who is good, for them?

 

Love,

 

Caroline

 

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