Re: [TruthTalk] Re [Truth Talk] Saved -- Salvation -- and the pigpen

[Caroline Wong]

1 Samuel 8:16 KJV: And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work. NIV: Your menservants and maidservants and the best of your cattle and donkeys he will take for his own use.   Gordon Fee explains the difference this way. KJV used Medieval Hebrew texts. The original miscopy is easy to see as "young men" in Hebrew is bhrykm and "young cattle" is bqrykm. The NIV uses the Septuagint which was based on Hebrew texts that predate this miscopy.   Also, "for the New Testament, the only Greek text available to the 1611 translators are based on late manuscripts, which had accumulated the mistakes of over a thousand years of copying. Few of these mistakes - and we must note that there are many of them - make any difference to us doctrinally, but they often do make a difference in the meaning of certain specific texts." "This is why for study, you should use almost any modern translation rather than the KJV."   Quotes from How to Read the Bible for All Its Worth by Gordon Fee and Douglas Stuart.   So, here I am, a young Christian (from JD's perspective :-) and I have chosen to side with Fee and Stuart over Deegan, Taylor and Shields. Gasp! Incroyable! (fr.)   Love,   Caroline ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re [Truth Talk] Saved -- Salvation -- and the pigpen That is nice of you to post such. But what does that have to do with JD's inSINcere allegation & Straw man, that there are TT's that believe in a Inspired KJV?   AFA the KJV: What was the source material that had errors? What errors did it contain? Or is it just a belief you were told? Caroline Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I believe the people who worked on the KJV were godly and were inspired. I believe the KJV contains errors, some of it due to the fact that the source material used had errors. I believe some KJV readers through inspiration apprehend God. I believe some miss Him totally.   Love,   Caroline ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 6:43 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Re [Truth Talk] Saved -- Salvation -- and the pigpen Does anyone even know, one person, who believes the KJV is INSPIRED??????????????? ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I don�t even read the rambling ones like that, Kevin.  It saves a lot of time. Izzy   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 8:17 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re [Truth Talk] Saved -- Salvation -- and the pigpen   As usual JD makes up a straw man, his favorite pastime. How else can he become a legend in his own mind? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 4/16/2005 2:17:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'll post the rebuttal to save ya'll typing time: Paul didn't write those letters! They were dictated word-by-word to him. Any hint of Paul's personality coming through is an illusion. Actually, you missed it, Caroline.  Our good friends on the Right really  believe that the King James Version is inspired.   Yes, that is correct  ........   inspired.      It has to be ----  the KJV being inspired  --- because we have none of the original texts.  None !!   No not one.  !!!   So   ----------------   since God's law must be established in print,  the King James is the "book for me,  " as they are often sing.   After all, it (the KJV version of the O.T.) is actually quoted verbatim, including the italicized wording, in the N.T!!!   That's right.   (You on the Right correct me is I have misstated the position.)   So,  there you have it.  It must be inspired or it wouldn't have been quoted,    God inspired the first writers (Paul and Moses and even unknown writers [Hebrews] ) ,  but we lost all those manuscripts --  so God reestablished them in the English Bible (KJV) to the exclusion of all other languages and translations  (apologies to the various ethnics around the world)  .   It was actually and originally called the Virgin King James Bible but that had it's own problems (no one knew if "virgin" applied to the cross dressing James or to the Bible itself) so they went with the less controversial  "KJV."   He was an "evangelical Christian,"  King James.   Apparently the first.   His non-scholars   (only the ignorant and unwise have anything to do with the Received Text)  did all the necessary work - thank the Lord --  so modern day books and "word studies" really have no place in present day Christian discussion.  Today, the kind and gracious KJ representatives survive, although their numbers continue to dwindle.   They are quite sectarian in their sense of community ( some see this as a contradiction of terms but they don't)   --  i.e., they fellowshiip  Roman Catholic members only if they are in a coma.   They maintain a secret list of "essentials"  and use these "essentials" to determine if others "have the Spirit of enlightenment,"   also known as the "Spirit of God."   Their  preferred method of evangelism is the bullhorn and a thing called "rebuking."   They actually believe that the rebuking of a total stranger carries more weight and influence than the loving and patient touch (n the name of the Lord)  in a process called "discipling  (as in  "Go ye and make disciples ....").     You will find, my dear Caroline,  that their goal in life is save through rebuking  ........God using them to break your evil will and bring true surrender into your life.    White flags offered during a "discussion" with these people have nothing to do with the "surrender" they have in mind.  More than an inspired English version,  this kind and gentle minority believe  their very opinions of biblical matters to be inspired as well   --   to the degree that many of them consider their "interpretation"  (a word straight from the pits of Hell  -- which is located in the middle of the earth, somewhere south of Compton, California.)  to be on a level with the Apostles and Prophets of old.   That's right.   We even have ancient manuscripts written by this dwindling crowd bearing this testimony.    So be careful when you encounter one of these people.   At first, they will appear to be quite normal in appearance    ---------------   until they smile, of course.   They constantly quote scripture and take frequent showers.  The best areas of conversation are those found on opposite sides of a street.  On those rare occasions that find yourself  lonesome and alone,  seek out a well lite street corner,  hold up a sign that reads  "I love Baxter Kruger" (whether you do or not is unimportant)  and wait.   Company is on the way.   The Bishop of Love The Rev JSmithson Do you Yahoo!? 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