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I'd like to do another quick post on
TT:
1)How many of you guys believe
- that you have 100% correct theology
- that you have 100% truth
- that this is easy for anyone
2)Can you name other theologians whom you believe
have no error in their theology?
3)In your opinion, why do bright and sincere
Christians believe different doctrines? How do you decide who is right? Is it by
how well they match your thinking?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 6:29
PM
Subject: Re: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re:
[Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
We talked about how can we know when we're worshipping a false
god. When we consider history from Augustine to today, it's not
easy.
It is VERY easy, this is exactly why God WROTE
it down in Black & White. We have a MORE SURE WORD 1Peter ya
know....
You're
equating love without truth as idolatry. Many things can be idolatrous so
I'll give you that.
The reference for truth without love being noise
is 1 Cor. 13:1-3.
It is easy to err by worshipping a god of our own
making. That error has been with us since man sought God. Isaiah's message
to the people was that they were seeing but never perceiving, hearing but
never understanding because they have become like the blind and deaf idols
they worshipped. When Jesus came, he referred to that passage when he
explained why he spoke in parables. He also began the reversal of idolatry
by healing the blind, deaf, mute and lame and casting out demons.
My
pastor discussed that last Sunday at our bible study. We talked about how
can we know when we're worshipping a false god. When we consider history
from Augustine to today, it's not easy. Jesus is the fullest revelation of
God. In the end, it's humility and grace which Jesus also personified. Love
covers a multitude of sins.
That Sunday, a missionary spoke about us
being sheep following a shepherd. He said some consider themselves 'lambo'.
He told of being in a part of Indonesia where the Christians boast of
killing Muslims. They can back up their attitude and actions biblically.
Meanwhile, this guy is going in there asking them to turn the other cheek,
forgive, bless. :-) I'm amazed he made it back out alive!
If I step
back and look at the broad spectrum of Christianity from the holiness people
like David to the liberals/liberation people (which I haven't seen at TT
BTW) to the persecuted church to the persecuting church, it's quite a
spectrum. Many factions say the others aren't Christians and some groups
have drawn a very small circle around themselves. The Holy Spirit is at work
in all to purify the Son's bride. It'll all work out in the end. As one of
my pastors like to say: he is a panmillenialist. He believes it'll all pan
out in the end.
Love,
Caroline
>
> From: Judy
Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2005/04/26 Tue AM 07:21:16
EST
> To: [email protected]
> CC:
[email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re:
[Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
>
> It's all through the OT whenever
God's ppl strayed by getting too tight
> with the nations around them
He spoke through the prophets calling them
> adultresses and harlots.
In the NT we can see it clearly in Romans 7.
>
> An adulteress
is anyone who tries to follow Jesus while they still love
> and walk
after the flesh and Paul writes
> "Or do you not know brethren - that
the law has jurisdiction over a
> person as long as he lives (in flesh
rebellion)? For the married woman
> (the bride of the old man) is
bound by law (under the judgment of the
> law) to her husband (the old
man and cursed nature) while he is (still)
> living; but if her
husband (old man) dies (by putting the flesh nature to
> death), she
is released from the law (fulfilled the law and is no longer
> under
the judgment of the law) concerning the husband (the old man). So
>
then if while her husband is living (by continuing to walk after the
>
flesh nature), she is joined to another man (by also trying to walk
>
double-minded as the bride of Christ), SHE SHALL BE CALLED AN
ADULTERESS;
> but if her husband (the fleshly old man) died, she is
free from the law
> (and no longer under the judgment of the law), so
that she is not an
> adulteress, though she is joined to another man
(the Lord Jesus Christ)
> Romans 7:1-3)
>
> On Mon, 25
Apr 2005 22:02:00 -0500 "Caroline Wong"
>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>writes:
> That's a new one for me. What
biblical reference is that?
>
> Love,
>
>
Caroline
> From: Judy Taylor
>
> Love without truth is
spiritual harlotry - God
>
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:25:48 -0500
"Caroline Wong"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>writes:
> Truth without
love is noise. The Apostle Paul
> From: Judy Taylor
>
>
Caroline,
> You quote Emerson to evaluate Kevin? Emerson's quote:
"What you are
> shouts so loud in my ears, I cannot hear what you
say." Ralph Waldo
> Emerson - more appropriately evaluate his own self
- Poor soul was
> raised in deception which apparently escalated in
his own life. He must
> not have believed in Adam's fall so was
unaware that the "divine soul"
> inspiring him was not from God. What
good are all these beautiful words?
> If they are not communicating
God's Truth they fall to the ground and are
> just stubble?
>
> As for Kevin - I think you mistake his zeal for righteousness
with
> anger... jt
>
> >From Wikipedia online:
>
Emerson was born in Boston, Massachusetts, to a Unitarian minister,
later
> to become a Unitarian minister himself. He gradually drifted
from the
> doctrines of his peers, then formulated and first expressed
the
> philosophy of Transcendentalism in his essay Nature.
>
> The publication of Emerson's 1836 essay Nature is usually taken to
be the
> watershed moment at which Transcendentalism became a major
cultural
> movement. Emerson wrote: "We will walk on our own feet; we
will work with
> our own hands; we will speak our own minds..A nation
of men will for the
> first time exist, because each believes himself
inspired by the Divine
> Soul which also inspires all men." Emerson
closed the essay by calling
> for a revolution in human consciousness
to emerge from the new idealist
> philosophy:
> So shall we come
to look at the world with new eyes. It shall answer the
> endless
inquiry of the intellect, - What is truth? and of the
> affections,�
What is good? by yielding itself passive to the educated
> Will. ...
Build, therefore, your own world. As fast as you conform your
> life
to the pure idea in your mind, that will unfold its great
>
proportions. A correspondent revolution in things will attend the
influx
> of the spirit.
> Emerson was noted as being a very
abstract and difficult writer who never
> the less drew large crowds
for his speeches. A common joke heard from his
> audiences was that
they had no idea what he was saying, but that it was
> beautiful. He
was considered one of the great orators of the time, a man
> who could
enrapture crowds with his own enthusiasm
>
> On Mon, 25 Apr
2005 08:37:51 -0500 "Caroline Wong"
>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>writes:
> If the person does not feel he is
angry but everyone else says it sure
> feels like it, then that person
could
> a) continue as he is because what other people think does not
matter or
> b) change communication style to reflect whom he really
believes himself
> to be
>
> "What you are shouts so loud
in my ears, I cannot hear what you say."
> Ralph Waldo Emerson
>
> Love,
>
> Caroline
>
> ----- Original
Message -----
> From: Lance Muir
> To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 3:06
AM
> Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
Hell
>
>
> What if one is actually not angry but, one is
so perceived by others?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
Caroline Wong
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: April
24, 2005 18:18
> Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
Hell
>
>
> James 1:19-20 My dear brothers, take note of
this: Everyone should be
> quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to
become angry, for man's anger
> does not bring about the righteous
life that God desires.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
Kevin Deegan
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday,
April 24, 2005 4:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
Hell
>
>
> They that hate me without a cause are more
than the hairs of mine head
> WOW there just might be some OT
precedent. Or was this added also?
>
> Why is it that the
Religious" "LOVE" crowd is always so judgemental and
> have a word of
knowledge at that. Since you got it from "the Spirit" it
> must be
right. How foolish
>
> Amos 5:10 They hate him that rebuketh in
the gate, and they abhor him
> that speaketh uprightly.
>
> I know that a modern 21st century Christian is always positive
always
> sweet like you. Too many sweets cause Diabetes!
>
Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that
>
hateth reproof shall die.
> I am not ANGRY just hateful and that NOT
without a cause!
> The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and
arrogancy, and the evil
> way, and the froward mouth, do I
hate.
> PS 97 Ye that love the LORD, hate evil
> I have hated
them that regard lying vanities: but I trust in the LORD.
> The
foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of
>
iniquity.
> I have hated the congregation of evil doers; and will not
sit with the
> wicked.
> Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate
thee? and am not I grieved with
> those that rise up against thee? I
hate them with perfect hatred: I count
> them mine enemies.
>
Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every
false
> way.
> Have I sinned in my words or just my attitude as
you see it?
> Should I tone it down, be a nice modern effeminate
christian?
> I guess you would have really been offended by some of
those old timers.
> Even the Methodists.
>
> Caroline
Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
> In high school, we were taught
there is only one answer to math equations
> and that there is a law
of non-contradiction. Later we learn electrons
> and light are both
particle and wave and that math equations can give you
> a range of
answers or no answer at all.
>
> Kevin, as your sister, I feel
compelled by the Spirit to tell you that
> you're an angry person and
you enjoy being angry. This is dangerous.
> 'nuff said.
>
> Love,
>
> Caroline
> ----- Original Message
-----
> From: Kevin Deegan
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 7:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [Bulk]
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
>
>
> You may like Coke I
may like Pepsi
> BUT
> There is only ONE correct answer to a
math equation
> There is only ONE correct formula in physics
>
Reality is unrelenting.
> What is true for you is also true for
me.
> It is a good thing you sell books not design bridges!
>
Engineering "mistakes" cost dearly, so do Theological ones!
>
>
Or are things different up there in Canuckastan?
>
> Lance Muir
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
> And that, Kevin, would be your
INTERPRETATION of Scripture, would it not?
> Do we now have two
'infallibles' on TT? (I mean only with respect to
> this
issue)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kevin Deegan
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: April 24, 2005
08:09
> Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
>
>
> Hey we call all be right!
> Except for ONE thing that gets in
the way
> REALITY
>
> Lance Muir
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
> This is ONE understanding of the
matter, albeit and, admittedly, the
> most widely held ONE.
>
> May I take a moment to pay you a compliment? Your demeanour has
been, on
> the whole, most gracious in the last while.
>
> thanks,
>
> Lance
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Judy Taylor
> To: [email protected]
>
Sent: April 24, 2005 05:24
> Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
>
>
>
> From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
IMPLICATIONS IMPLICATIONS IFF He (Jesus) wasn't communicating what
YOU
> think He was communication then, what will you do?
>
> I just found Elsman's response to BillW concerning hell written a
year
> ago today which you may find interesting; he makes a good
argument and I
> like his presentation ..... all from scripture - This
is one of his finer
> moments :-) So WDYT? jt
> BILL,
>
YES, LET'S ALL HEAD FOR THE CITY OF THE NEW JERUSALEM , ALL ON THIS
>
FORUM.
>
> RESPECTFULLY, YOU HAVE A TOUGH SCRIPTURAL CASE TO
PROVE THAT THERE IS A
> SECOND-CHANCE TO BE SAVED FROM SIN:
>
> A. AFTER WE DIE.
> B. AFTER THE "DAY OF THE LORD", IF WE ARE
ALIVE AT THAT TIME.
> C. CERTAINLY, AFTER THE "NEW JERUSALEM" COMETH
DOWN WITH ITS RIVER OF
> LIFE.
>
> I ASK YOU TO
RE-EXAMINE REV.21: 6-8, WHEREIN THE DIE IS CAST, I.E.
> THE SINNERS
SHALL "...HAVE THEIR PART IN THE LAKE WHICH BURNETH WITH FIRE
> AND
BRIMSTONE, WHICH IS THE SECOND DEATH."
>
> THUS, I DID NOT SEE
THE "LAKE OF FIRE" DEALT WITH IN YOUR VERY CREATIVE
> ANALYSIS OF
POETIC LICENSE, AS SOME WOULD SAY. SURELY, THE SINNERS WON'T
> BE
LOUNGING AROUND OUTSIDE THE CITY WALLS OF THE "NEW JERUSALEM", SOME
>
SEEKING TO BE SAVED AT THE LAST SECOND BY LAPPING LIVING WATER OF
THE
> RIVER OF LIFE.
> INDEED, IT IS VERY CLEAR FROM REV. 22:11
THAT :
> "...HE THAT IS UNJUST, LET HIM BE UNJUST STILL, AND HE WHICH
IS FILTHY,
> LET HIM BE FILTHY STILL...."
> IN OTHER WORDS,
STATUS IS SET FIRMLY, NEVER TO CHANGE WHEN WE GET BEYOND
> DEATH TO
JUDGMENT, AS HEBREWS REMINDS US ( "...IT IS APPOINTED UNTO MEN
> ONCE
TO DIE, AND THENCE COMETH THE JUDGMENT...").
> ALL THOSE MORMON AND
CATHOLIC PRAYERS FOR THE DEAD---AND CEREMONIES AND
> MASSES AVAILETH
NOT. THE DIE IS CAST AT DEATH.
> IN SHORT, IF YOU EVER SEE A SINNER
THAT YOU KNEW IN THIS LIFE , AS HE IS
> HEADING FOR THE LAKE OF FIRE,
YOU CAN EXPECT HIM TO BE ANGRILY CURSING
> GOD, NOT COVETING THE RIVER
OF LIFE WATERS----EVEN THOUGH WATER WOULD BE
> A BLESSING IN THAT
LAKE, WHERE THE WORM DIETH NOT, AND THE FIRE IS NEVER
> QUENCHED.
> SINNERS ARE MORALLY INSANE IN A ROMANS 3 SENSE. SUCH IS THE
ALIENATION OF
> THE UNREPENTANT SINNER FROM HOLINESS-----EVEN IF, AS
IS THE CASE, THE
> CHRISTIAN'S ESSENTIAL HOLINESS IS VICARIOUS,
SUBSTITUTIONARY AND PROXY,
> VIA THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB JESUS THAT
TAKETH AWAY OUR SINS. HALLELUJAH!!!
> THAT IS THE WOW, WOW,
WOW!!!---THAT HE WOULD DO THAT FOR US!!!
>
> ----ELSMAN, THE
LAWYER ARGUING HIS CASE FOR RIGHT-DIVISION OF SCRIPTURE,
>
FINELY-TUNED.
>
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----------
"Let
your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how
you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
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