Evangelicalisms terminal generation
EXCEPTS
On the theological left, the Gospel had long ago been transformed into a social and political message of liberation from oppression. Now, among some who consider themselves evangelicals, the Gospel of Christ has been reduced to a form of self-_expression_ or therapy. Salvation is promised as the answer to low self-esteem and emptiness. Gone is any notion of a holy God who offers salvation from sin and its eternal penalty.
Sociologist James Davison Hunter has long warned that younger evangelicals tend to go soft on this doctrine. Educated in a culture of postmodern relativism and ideological pluralism, this generation has been taught to avoid making any exclusive claim to truth. Speak of your truth, if you must--but never claim to know the Truth. Unless this course is reversed, there will be no evangelicals in the next generation.
Charles Spurgeon stated it plainly: "We have come to a turning-point in the road. If we turn to the right, mayhap our children and our children's children will go that way; but if we turn to the left, generations yet unborn will curse our names for having been unfaithful to God and to His Word." Those words ring with prophetic urgency more than a century after they were written. Evangelicals must regain theological courage and conviction, or we must face the tragic reality that this may be evangelicalism's terminal generation.
Caroline Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Charles Spurgeon stated it plainly: "We have come to a turning-point in the road. If we turn to the right, mayhap our children and our children's children will go that way; but if we turn to the left, generations yet unborn will curse our names for having been unfaithful to God and to His Word." Those words ring with prophetic urgency more than a century after they were written. Evangelicals must regain theological courage and conviction, or we must face the tragic reality that this may be evangelicalism's terminal generation.
Caroline Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'd like to do another quick post on TT:1)How many of you guys believe- that you have 100% correct theology- that you have 100% truth- that this is easy for anyone2)Can you name other theologians whom you believe have no error in their theology?3)In your opinion, why do bright and sincere Christians believe different doctrines? How do you decide who is right? Is it by how well they match your thinking?----- Original Message -----From: Kevin DeeganSent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 6:29 PMSubject: Re: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] HellWe talked about how can we know when we're worshipping a false god. When we consider history from Augustine to today, it's not easy.It is VERY easy, this is exactly why God WROTE it down in Black & White. We have a MORE SURE WORD 1Peter ya know....
You're equating love without truth as idolatry. Many things can be idolatrous so I'll give you that.
The reference for truth without love being noise is 1 Cor. 13:1-3.
It is easy to err by worshipping a god of our own making. That error has been with us since man sought God. Isaiah's message to the people was that they were seeing but never perceiving, hearing but never understanding because they have become like the blind and deaf idols they worshipped. When Jesus came, he referred to that passage when he explained why he spoke in parables. He also began the reversal of idolatry by healing the blind, deaf, mute and lame and casting out demons.
My pastor discussed that last Sunday at our bible study. We talked about how can we know when we're worshipping a false god. When we consider history from Augustine to today, it's not easy. Jesus is the fullest revelation of God. In the end, it's humility and grace which Jesus also personified. Love covers a multitude of sins.
That Sunday, a missionary spoke about us being sheep following a shepherd. He said some consider themselves 'lambo'. He told of being in a part of Indonesia where the Christians boast of killing Muslims. They can back up their attitude and actions biblically. Meanwhile, this guy is going in there asking them to turn the other cheek, forgive, bless. :-) I'm amazed he made it back out alive!
If I step back and look at the broad spectrum of Christianity from the holiness people like David to the liberals/liberation people (which I haven't seen at TT BTW) to the persecuted church to the persecuting church, it's quite a spectrum. Many factions say the others aren't Christians and some groups have drawn a very small circle around themselves. The Holy Spirit is at work in all to purify the Son's bride. It'll all work out in the end. As one of my pastors like to say: he is a panmillenialist. He believes it'll all pan out in the end.
Love,
Caroline
>
> From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2005/04/26 Tue AM 07:21:16 EST
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> CC: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
>
> It's all through the OT whenever God's ppl strayed by getting too tight
> with the nations around them He spoke through the prophets calling them
> adultresses and harlots. In the NT we can see it clearly in Romans 7.
>
> An adulteress is anyone who tries to follow Jesus while they still love
> and walk after the flesh and Paul writes
> "Or do you not know brethren - that the law has jurisdiction over a
> person as long as he lives (in flesh rebellion)? For the married woman
> (the bride of the old man) is bound by law (under the judgment of the
> law) to her husband (the old man and cursed nature) while he is (still)
> living; but if her husband (old man) dies (by putting the flesh nature to
> death), she is released from the law (fulfilled the law and is no longer
> under the judgment of the law) concerning the husband (the old man). So
> then if while her husband is living (by continuing to walk after the
> flesh nature), she is joined to another man (by also trying to walk
> double-minded as the bride of Christ), SHE SHALL BE CALLED AN ADULTERESS;
> but if her husband (the fleshly old man) died, she is free from the law
> (and no longer under the judgment of the law), so that she is not an
> adulteress, though she is joined to another man (the Lord Jesus Christ)
> Romans 7:1-3)
>
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:02:00 -0500 "Caroline Wong"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>writes:
> That's a new one for me. What biblical reference is that?
>
> Love,
>
> Caroline
> From: Judy Taylor
>
> Love without truth is spiritual harlotry - God
>
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:25:48 -0500 "Caroline Wong"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>writes:
> Truth without love is noise. The Apostle Paul
> From: Judy Taylor
>
> Caroline,
> You quote Emerson to evaluate Kevin? Emerson's quote: "What you are
> shouts so loud in my ears, I cannot hear what you say." Ralph Waldo
> Emerson - more appropriately evaluate his own self - Poor soul was
> raised in deception which apparently escalated in his own life. He must
> not have believed in Adam's fall so was unaware that the "divine soul"
> inspiring him was not from God. What good are all these beautiful words?
> If they are not communicating God's Truth they fall to the ground and are
> just stubble?
>
> As for Kevin - I think you mistake his zeal for righteousness with
> anger... jt
>
> >From Wikipedia online:
> Emerson was born in Boston, Massachusetts, to a Unitarian minister, later
> to become a Unitarian minister himself. He gradually drifted from the
> doctrines of his peers, then formulated and first expressed the
> philosophy of Transcendentalism in his essay Nature.
>
> The publication of Emerson's 1836 essay Nature is usually taken to be the
> watershed moment at which Transcendentalism became a major cultural
> movement. Emerson wrote: "We will walk on our own feet; we will work with
> our own hands; we will speak our own minds..A nation of men will for the
> first time exist, because each believes himself inspired by the Divine
> Soul which also inspires all men." Emerson closed the essay by calling
> for a revolution in human consciousness to emerge from the new idealist
> philosophy:
> So shall we come to look at the world with new eyes. It shall answer the
> endless inquiry of the intellect, - What is truth? and of the
> affections,— What is good? by yielding itself passive to the educated
> Will. ... Build, therefore, your own world. As fast as you conform your
> life to the pure idea in your mind, that will unfold its great
> proportions. A correspondent revolution in things will attend the influx
> of the spirit.
> Emerson was noted as being a very abstract and difficult writer who never
> the less drew large crowds for his speeches. A common joke heard from his
> audiences was that they had no idea what he was saying, but that it was
> beautiful. He was considered one of the great orators of the time, a man
> who could enrapture crowds with his own enthusiasm
>
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:37:51 -0500 "Caroline Wong"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>writes:
> If the person does not feel he is angry but everyone else says it sure
> feels like it, then that person could
> a) continue as he is because what other people think does not matter or
> b) change communication style to reflect whom he really believes himself
> to be
>
> "What you are shouts so loud in my ears, I cannot hear what you say."
> Ralph Waldo Emerson
>
> Love,
>
> Caroline
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lance Muir
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 3:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
>
>
> What if one is actually not angry but, one is so perceived by others?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Caroline Wong
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Sent: April 24, 2005 18:18
> Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
>
>
> James 1:19-20 My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be
> quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man's anger
> does not bring about the righteous life that God desires.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kevin Deegan
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 4:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
>
>
> They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head
> WOW there just might be some OT precedent. Or was this added also?
>
> Why is it that the Religious" "LOVE" crowd is always so judgemental and
> have a word of knowledge at that. Since you got it from "the Spirit" it
> must be right. How foolish
>
> Amos 5:10 They hate him that rebuketh in the gate, and they abhor him
> that speaketh uprightly.
>
> I know that a modern 21st century Christian is always positive always
> sweet like you. Too many sweets cause Diabetes!
> Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that
> hateth reproof shall die.
> I am not ANGRY just hateful and that NOT without a cause!
> The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil
> way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
> PS 97 Ye that love the LORD, hate evil
> I have hated them that regard lying vanities: but I trust in the LORD.
> The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of
> iniquity.
> I have hated the congregation of evil doers; and will not sit with the
> wicked.
> Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with
> those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: I count
> them mine enemies.
> Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false
> way.
> Have I sinned in my words or just my attitude as you see it?
> Should I tone it down, be a nice modern effeminate christian?
> I guess you would have really been offended by some of those old timers.
> Even the Methodists.
>
> Caroline Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
> In high school, we were taught there is only one answer to math equations
> and that there is a law of non-contradiction. Later we learn electrons
> and light are both particle and wave and that math equations can give you
> a range of answers or no answer at all.
>
> Kevin, as your sister, I feel compelled by the Spirit to tell you that
> you're an angry person and you enjoy being angry. This is dangerous.
> 'nuff said.
>
> Love,
>
> Caroline
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kevin Deegan
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 7:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
>
>
> You may like Coke I may like Pepsi
> BUT
> There is only ONE correct answer to a math equation
> There is only ONE correct formula in physics
> Reality is unrelenting.
> What is true for you is also true for me.
> It is a good thing you sell books not design bridges!
> Engineering "mistakes" cost dearly, so do Theological ones!
>
> Or are things different up there in Canuckastan?
>
> Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
> And that, Kevin, would be your INTERPRETATION of Scripture, would it not?
> Do we now have two 'infallibles' on TT? (I mean only with respect to
> this issue)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kevin Deegan
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Sent: April 24, 2005 08:09
> Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
>
>
> Hey we call all be right!
> Except for ONE thing that gets in the way
> REALITY
>
> Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
> This is ONE understanding of the matter, albeit and, admittedly, the
> most widely held ONE.
>
> May I take a moment to pay you a compliment? Your demeanour has been, on
> the whole, most gracious in the last while.
>
> thanks,
>
> Lance
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Judy Taylor
> To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org
> Sent: April 24, 2005 05:24
> Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
>
>
>
> From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> IMPLICATIONS IMPLICATIONS IFF He (Jesus) wasn't communicating what YOU
> think He was communication then, what will you do?
>
> I just found Elsman's response to BillW concerning hell written a year
> ago today which you may find interesting; he makes a good argument and I
> like his presentation ..... all from scripture - This is one of his finer
> moments :-) So WDYT? jt
> BILL,
> YES, LET'S ALL HEAD FOR THE CITY OF THE NEW JERUSALEM , ALL ON THIS
> FORUM.
>
> RESPECTFULLY, YOU HAVE A TOUGH SCRIPTURAL CASE TO PROVE THAT THERE IS A
> SECOND-CHANCE TO BE SAVED FROM SIN:
>
> A. AFTER WE DIE.
> B. AFTER THE "DAY OF THE LORD", IF WE ARE ALIVE AT THAT TIME.
> C. CERTAINLY, AFTER THE "NEW JERUSALEM" COMETH DOWN WITH ITS RIVER OF
> LIFE.
>
> I ASK YOU TO RE-EXAMINE REV.21: 6-8, WHEREIN THE DIE IS CAST, I.E.
> THE SINNERS SHALL "...HAVE THEIR PART IN THE LAKE WHICH BURNETH WITH FIRE
> AND BRIMSTONE, WHICH IS THE SECOND DEATH."
>
> THUS, I DID NOT SEE THE "LAKE OF FIRE" DEALT WITH IN YOUR VERY CREATIVE
> ANALYSIS OF POETIC LICENSE, AS SOME WOULD SAY. SURELY, THE SINNERS WON'T
> BE LOUNGING AROUND OUTSIDE THE CITY WALLS OF THE "NEW JERUSALEM", SOME
> SEEKING TO BE SAVED AT THE LAST SECOND BY LAPPING LIVING WATER OF THE
> RIVER OF LIFE.
> INDEED, IT IS VERY CLEAR FROM REV. 22:11 THAT :
> "...HE THAT IS UNJUST, LET HIM BE UNJUST STILL, AND HE WHICH IS FILTHY,
> LET HIM BE FILTHY STILL...."
> IN OTHER WORDS, STATUS IS SET FIRMLY, NEVER TO CHANGE WHEN WE GET BEYOND
> DEATH TO JUDGMENT, AS HEBREWS REMINDS US ( "...IT IS APPOINTED UNTO MEN
> ONCE TO DIE, AND THENCE COMETH THE JUDGMENT...").
> ALL THOSE MORMON AND CATHOLIC PRAYERS FOR THE DEAD---AND CEREMONIES AND
> MASSES AVAILETH NOT. THE DIE IS CAST AT DEATH.
> IN SHORT, IF YOU EVER SEE A SINNER THAT YOU KNEW IN THIS LIFE , AS HE IS
> HEADING FOR THE LAKE OF FIRE, YOU CAN EXPECT HIM TO BE ANGRILY CURSING
> GOD, NOT COVETING THE RIVER OF LIFE WATERS----EVEN THOUGH WATER WOULD BE
> A BLESSING IN THAT LAKE, WHERE THE WORM DIETH NOT, AND THE FIRE IS NEVER
> QUENCHED.
> SINNERS ARE MORALLY INSANE IN A ROMANS 3 SENSE. SUCH IS THE ALIENATION OF
> THE UNREPENTANT SINNER FROM HOLINESS-----EVEN IF, AS IS THE CASE, THE
> CHRISTIAN'S ESSENTIAL HOLINESS IS VICARIOUS, SUBSTITUTIONARY AND PROXY,
> VIA THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB JESUS THAT TAKETH AWAY OUR SINS. HALLELUJAH!!!
> THAT IS THE WOW, WOW, WOW!!!---THAT HE WOULD DO THAT FOR US!!!
>
> ----ELSMAN, THE LAWYER ARGUING HIS CASE FOR RIGHT-DIVISION OF SCRIPTURE,
> FINELY-TUNED.
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
