Re: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Rikk Watts on Genesis 1

[Judy Taylor]

Those who adjust it to make it more comfortable??  This conversation reminds me of an incident with our youngest girl who never liked chores and when I gave her some she would always get busy pointing out to me what this one or that one were doing - while she had to work. At the time I said to her "don't you worry about them, you just do what I tell you to do" and immediately I clearly heard the Spirit of the Lord say - "and you too"   It's so true that we are the only ones we can do anything about; God is well able to take care of the rest. We know that the feebleminded are not excluded because the Thessalonian believers were told to "comfort the feebleminded" among them and then we have Jesus' words when Peter was wanting to get into John's business by wanting to know what he was supposed to do and Jesus tells him "If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me." (John 21:22).  I never forgot.   judyt     On Sat, 7 May 2005 07:35:14 -0500 "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: And what about those who have heard the Truth, and reject it for a version of their own?   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Wong But therein opens up a can of worms. What about people who are mentally incapable? And what about those who were indoctrinated into another belief (thereby rendering them mentally incapable as well). Most people would also add those who did not hear. Or those who did not hear a good presentation. Or those who got turned off by Christians.   Basically, none of us can say who is in and who is out except to say it is God's choice and His grace.   Love,   Caroline   From: ShieldsFamily   Caroline, you are exactly right.  Grace is what "earns" us a place at the table--the sacrifice of Christ paid for the ticket to the party.  We can't "deserve" anything except hell but for His grace.  Thus being intellectually honest, or sincere, or belonging to a large group who believes as we do, or walking in what we discern as the "light" if it is not what God says is light, none of these things will earn us a place at the table.*   However, you seem to think there are no requirements for that grace. Do you think everyone will receive it? I believe that only those who repent and follow Christ will receive it.  Those who are not old enough to do that will not be required to do so, of course.  God is not only just, but fair.   Izzy   *Rev 19: 7"Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready."    8 It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.    9Then he said to me, "Write, 'Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb '" And he said to me, "These are true words of God."     -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 5:37 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Rikk Watts on Genesis 1   Actually, I was reacting to your phrase "deserving a place at God's table". I come from a tradition that says it is by grace we are all there and I used to think all Christians believed same. None of us deserves to be there. It still startles me whenever I read various versions of "we got there the old fashioned way - we earned it." :-)But I'm getting used to it!   But your comment has opened up another avenue of conversation. What if someone thought they were following Christ with all that they are but their theology is wrong so their fruit is a little strange? Would God look into their heart and accept them anyway? What is of more importance - the believer's theology or the believer's heart?   Also, what about children who die before they can become Christian? What if they were born into non-Christian families? Would God make an exception for them?   Love,   Caroline > > From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2005/05/06 Fri AM 08:48:22 EST > To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org> > Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Rikk Watts on Genesis 1 > > Caroline, No, that is not what you wrote below.  We can only take a person's > word for whether or not they are following Jesus with all their heart and > mind and strength, but God sees the heart.  We can only see the fruit, and > sometimes that contradicts what comes out of their mouth.  Izzy > >  > >   _____  > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Wong > Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 6:49 AM > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Rikk Watts on Genesis 1 > >  > > uhhh....didn't I say we were all following Jesus with our hearts and minds? > But I'm glad to hear you withhold judgment...sort of withhold > judgment....whatever....it's a start. > >  > > Love, > >  > > Caroline > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: ShieldsFamily <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  > > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 9:05 PM > > Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Rikk Watts on Genesis 1 > >  > > Caroline, None of what you stated are God's criteria for deserving a place > at Gods table.  There is plenty of room at the table, but only for those who > have chosen to follow Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.  I can't tell you if > you qualify or not. You tell me.  Izzy > >  > > >   _____  > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Wong > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 8:40 PM > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Rikk Watts on Genesis 1 > >  > > We both are intellectually honest and sincere in our pursuit of the faith. > We each go by the light of our understanding. We stand in the company of > hundreds who believe and practice just as we do. There is room at the Lord's > table for all of us, isn't there? > >  > > Love, > >  > > Caroline > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: ShieldsFamily <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  > > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 8:15 AM > > Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Rikk Watts on Genesis 1 > >  > > I disagree rationally.  Izzy > >  > > >   _____  > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Wong > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 7:34 PM > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Rikk Watts on Genesis 1 > >  > > Indeed you would be if you disagreed rationally with what I wrote. If you > disagreed emotionally, then it's another matter altogether. > >  > > Love, > >  > > Caroline > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: ShieldsFamily <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  > > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 12:46 PM > > Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Rikk Watts on Genesis 1 > >  > > Caroline, I can't really agree with most of what you have said.  So maybe > I'm just being intellectually honest with you? Izzy > >  > > >   _____  > > >  > > I thought, surely Izzy jests! which is why I replied in kind. Watts is not > saying the bible isn't true or looking for reasons to not take it literally. > Believing the bible is literal is the simplest approach and Occam's razor > favours the simplest approach. The only reason theologians abandon it is > because they could not be intellectually honest and take it literally or > pretend that things like language, culture, myth etc. does not matter. > >  > > That's why I say it was merely intelligence. We know Proverbs is a > collection of wise sayings but not literal promises we get to hold God to. > We know Psalms is Israel's songbook and it contains some pretty raw things > said against their enemies and that we're not allowed to pray or think same > way because of the new command Jesus gave us to love our enemies. Even the > Chicago Statement of very conservative inerrancy acknowledge the presence of > hyperbole in Jesus' statements and also that inerrancy does not apply to any > translation. > >  > > Approaching the bible as truth in history, poetry, wisdom literature, > biography and prophecy does not hurt a person's faith or relationship with > God. It makes both stronger and richer. It is the product of our scientific > age that we've understand truth only as scientific or mathematical and lost > the beauty of truth in other forms. > >  > > Love, > >  > > Caroline > > >   ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org   If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.