Kevin wrote: > Titus 3 Not by works of righteousness which we have > done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the > washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy > Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus > Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, > we should be made heirs according to the hope of > eternal life. > Your Theology says some got shed on more ABUNDANTLY > than others.
Of course. Isn't that an obvious observation repeated throughout Scripture? For example, Acts 6 when the deacons were ordained, they were to be men full of the Holy Ghost. The "renewing" of the Holy Ghost mentioned above has nothing to do with Jesus baptizing someone with the Holy Ghost. This renewing has to do with a work of the Spirit renewing a person, the fruit of a born again spirit. Kevin wrote: > If one has not the Holy spirit it is as simple > as "he is NONE of His" I think you are tripping up on semantics here. You are reading this passage and applying it to other contexts in other passages and thereby missing the meaning of the other passages. God often does not speak like men do. For example, he calls those things which be not as though they were (Rom. 4:17). Let me use some other passages to help you see how if you used your mindset with these other passages, you would miss the "simple" meaning. Galatians 3:27 (27) For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Now if this passage was approached in the same way that you approach Rom. 8:9, one might argue that a person who has been baptized into Christ would automatiacally have put on Christ and be walking in the Spirit. Such a view defies our observations of reality. Surely you have known people who have been baptized into the Lord Jesus who then walk contrary to the way of the Lord. Here's another passage: 1 John 5:18 (18) We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. Now if this passage was approached in the same way that you approach Rom. 8:9, one might argue that whoever experiences being born again could not possibly sin again. Such a view again defies our observations of reality. Surely you have known people who have come to saving faith in the Lord who then sinned later, perhaps even often. We cannot say that is it just simple that whoever is born of God does not sin because of what this verse says. Here's another passage: Acts 2:17-18 (17) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: (18) And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: If we took the same approach to this passage as you have to Rom. 8:9, one might argue that *ALL* flesh, everyone on earth, has received the Spirit, and therefore, everything mentioned has been experienced by everyone (the visions, dreams, the experience of prophecying, etc.). Yet, this defies our observations of reality. Not all flesh has received his Spirit. The Scriptures teach that we experience these realities when we believe. If we walk in faith toward God, all of these passages find expression in our lives. The problem is that not everybody walks in this kind of faith. There are doubters, just like the spies who went into the promised land and did not believe that God would give it to them. There is nothing wrong with the promises of God. The problem is with people who do not believe. Now there also is the sin of presumption that must be considered here. Presumption is the counterfeit of faith. Some people read passages like those quoted and think that they automatically have been baptized in the Spirit just because the Bible says they have, or they think they do not sin just because the Bible says they don't. If it is by presumption rather than faith, then they deceive themselves and walk in deception rather than the reality of the passage. Remember that the Israelites did try to go into the promised land when they realized that God had spoken the truth, but they failed, because it was by presumption rather than faith. The reality of the promise was not experienced until almost four decades later because of their unbelief. My concern about how you approach the baptism of the Holy Ghost is that it leads to lukewarmness in regards to the gift of the Holy Ghost. Such a reading leads to a tendency to presume that one has experienced all the riches of the Holy Ghost even if they have not. There really needs to be an acknowledgment that what the Bible says about the experiences of the believer might not happen all at once. Just as a new believer might not start preaching the Lord right away, or be praying as he ought, or walking in holiness, in like manner he might not experience the gift of the Holy Ghost. "Have ye received the gift of the Holy Ghost since ye believed," is a valid question to a believer. If one's theology makes such a question invalid, then his theology is wrong. The way he reads the Bible is wrong. Peace be with you. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
