Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah

Wed, 15 Jun 2005 06:04:20 -0700

As to #1, good for Kevin. Now, how 'bout you and, my question to you?
 
As to #2, it may have required a bit of 'tweeking':Are you suggesting that most believing children of say 8 or 9 could speak to the meaning of the scriptures, in their entirety, as well as you?
 
As to #3, David, IMO, functions within a Newtonian framework. For a scientist, that is unacceptable. IMO he needs to adopt a post-critical understanding which, as yet, he has not (IMO-one more time)
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: June 15, 2005 08:40
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah

 
 
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:25:07 -0400 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Jt speaks of 'contant misunderstandings, if that is what they are'. I, for one, see them this way: When I (fill in the writer's name) quote scripture which I deem pertinent to the subject at hand, I (same) believe that my understanding ought to be the understanding and any true believer on TT. If a little 'tweeking' is required then, surely with that they will quickly come to say 'Ahh, I see now. Of course it is as you say.')
 
May I ask you, Judy, what you believe is actually going on?
 
jt: Kevin may have hit the nail on the head when he says there are some big egos on board.  Scholastic egos.
 
Now, as to children and the Scriptures. I assume you to mean that a child. of a certain age, may apprehend Jesus in head and heart. I do also. IMO, what you do not mean is much beyond that...do you?
 
jt: What I mean is that things are not nearly as difficult and intellectual as some would make them.
 
As to your latter point..mea culpa. I genuinely hear David in Christine. Perhaps this is to be expected. Perhaps she will develop her own 'voice' one day. It may be presumption on my part but, I expected more of David than he is apparently capable of. This has to do with 'enlightenment rationalism' and with 'fundamentalism'.
 
jt: More?  Like what?  David is a pilgrim as we all are. He has his own part and he makes his own contribution.  Noone has the whole loaf, including David.  Just what are you expecting from him that he is not measuring up to?
 
 
Sent: June 15, 2005 08:03
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah

 
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 06:38:30 -0400 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Iz:Are your beliefs "profaned" by Dan Brown's "The Da Vinci Code"?
> Terry recently indicated that he was close to 'taking a walk' from
> TT due to the absence of real engagement between participants.
 
jt:  I hear you Terry and have considered it also.  One becomes weary of
travelling in circles and the constant misunderstandings if that is what they
are. It's quite amazing when one considers that even a child with an open
heart is able to understand scripture.

> What would you you would consider to be "profaning" of another's
> beliefs?  I've critiqued DM epistemology. I've not mocked his claim to
> prophetic office whereas others have. Were they employing "profanity" as you
> see it? Will you raise the level of response above 'good grief' and 'I could
> throw up'?
 
jt: Maybe not his "claim" per se Lance, but you are constantly mocking him as
a person and what you perceive to be his style which taint now overshadows
his daughter.

 
> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: June 14, 2005 17:22
> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
 
> > Oh, good grief! What is this, Political Correctness 101? I could
> throw up.
> > Hey Blaine are you beliefs "profaned" by the pitter patter of
> little
> > feeties??? Or should our little feeties pitter patter around your
> > sensitivities? Izzy


> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Lance
> Muir
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 12:23 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
> >
> > I may be as informed on the Mormon 'faith' as yourself. Some years
> back I
> > discovered myself to have known more concerning the LDS than the
> majority
> of
> > those with whom I spoke. I do not think it necessary to profane
> what
> others
> > deem sacred. Do you?
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: June 14, 2005 13:41
> > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
> >
> >
> > > Lance,
> > >
> > >    Thanks for your concern for Blaine and over the legitimacy
> and
> > > sensitivity of my line of questioning. My reason for asking that
> question
> > is
> > > two-fold. One is to relate to the rest of the group what
> potentially
> > awaits
> > > good mormon men who transition from men to gods and the women
> who may
> get
> > > chosen to be their eternal soirit wives. The second is to
> determine if
> > > Blaine has any insight or opinoin into his grandfather's current
> state.
> As
> > > for the "pitter-patter" of spirit feet, I thought that was a
> cute quip
> > based
> > > on the parallel earthly phrase meaning the same thing when
> earthly human
> > > children are born.
> > >
> > >    It is a common mormon belief that mormons can become gods
> after they
> > die,
> > > have spirit wives, produce spirit babies, and populate a planet,
> just as
> > > their current god, originally from the planet Kolob, did with
> his spirit
> > > wives and this planet, Earth. I know several of his
> offspring...Satan,
> > > Jesus, Dave, and Blaine, to name a few. I do not think that a
> mormon
> would
> > > find this question offensive, no more so would any Christian of
> whom I
> > > askedof their deceased grandfatherr, "was he a believer",
> implying all
> > that
> > > we believe happens to a believer who dies. Besides, it is also
> possible
> > that
> > > Blaine had heard from his grandfather from beyond the grave, as
> he did a
> > > great aunt, I believe it was, and knows the answer to these
> things. If
> he
> > > has received no message from his grandfather, then perhaps he
> has an
> > opinion
> > > relative to that question. For example, if he knows that his
> grandfather
> > > performed all of the earthly works necessary to become a god,
> then he
> mey
> > > reply with certainty that he is in such a state, although he has
> not
> heard
> > > directly from him. And, since Blaine is a big boy, he can
> respond if he
> > > wishes, or not.
> > >
> > > Perry
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >Reply-To: [email protected]
> > > >To: <[email protected]>
> > > >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
> > > >Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:57:12 -0400
> > > >
> > > >Mr. Moderator: This is over the top and, not necessary.
> > > >
> > > >L
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >To: <[email protected]>
> > > >Sent: June 13, 2005 23:26
> > > >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Do you think you Grandfather is a god now, with spirit
> wives, and
> > > >possible
> > > > > the pitter-patter of little spirit feet?
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > >Reply-To: [email protected]
> > > > > >To: [email protected]
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
> > > > > >Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 19:15:05 EDT
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >In a message dated 6/13/2005 2:09:44 PM Mountain Standard
> Time,
> > > > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >I  would think that we all choose to believe whatever
> based upon
> > our
> > > >view
> > > > > >of
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >the credibility of the "truth source" closest to us in
> terms of
> > time
> > > >and
> > > > > > >space.    I mean, if Blaine was "born a  Mormon,'  his
> first
> source
> > > >of
> > > > > > >"truth" would be his parents.   Who's he going to believe
>  --
> his
> > > > > >parents
> > > > > > >or some guy  standing cross the street waving underwear. 
> And, by
> > the
> > > > > >time
> > > > > > >he gets to a free thinking age,  he already has such a
> systematize
> > > >faith
> > > > > > >that little will prevail against it.    THAT'S NORMAL.   
> Blaine
> > may
> > > >or
> > > > > >not
> > > > > > >believe this -- but  --------------------    THANK GOD WE
> DO NOT
> > HAVE
> > > >TO
> > > > > >BE
> > > > > > >RIGHT.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >JD
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Blaine:  Good, JD.  I agree parents are critical in what 
> children
> > end
> > > >up
> > > > > >believing. I am very fortunate to have had good advice and
> guidance
> > > >from
> > > > > >my mom
> > > > > >and dad.    My grandpa was also very  influential, mostly
> by his
> > > >example.
> > > > > >He
> > > > > >served two missions (LDS) to  Norway, and another one to
> Spokane,
> > > > > >Washington.
> > > > > >He recorded many  miraculous healings, casting out of
> devils, etc.
> in
> > > >his
> > > > > >writings.  He was a  Judge in regular life, and often
> required
> those
> > he
> > > >saw
> > > > > >in
> > > > > >court to go to church,  the denomination being left to
> them.  He
> was
> > > >always
> > > > > >in
> > > > > >favor of religious  training, regardless of the belief
> system.  Any
> > > >belief
> > > > > >that
> > > > > >advocates  Christian values, he felt, was better than the
> value
> > systems
> > > > > >that
> > > > > >got people  into trouble with the law.  Nevertheless, he
> lived and
> > died
> > > >by
> > > > > >the
> > > > > >LDS  doctrines.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----------
> > > > > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt,
> that you
> > may
> > > >know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
> > > >http://www.InnGlory.org
> > > > >
> > > > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an
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> a
> > > >friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----------
> > > >"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that
> you may
> > > >know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
> > > >http://www.InnGlory.org
> > > >
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> > > ----------
> > > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that
> you may
> > know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
> > http://www.InnGlory.org
> > >
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> >
> > ----------
> > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that
> you may
> know
> > how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
> > http://www.InnGlory.org
> >
> > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email
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> >
> >
> > ----------
> > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that
> you may
> know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
> http://www.InnGlory.org
> >
> > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email
> to
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> have a
> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
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>
>
> ----------
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you
> may know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
> http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
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