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There are always those who mistakenly take the wrong positions,
and those who mistakenly call themselves Christians, on any issue. There
were many Christians who risked (and lost) their lives to protect Jews during
WWII. Ever hear of Corrie Ten Boom or Schindler? Just don't assume it's
always the church or Christians who are on the wrong side, okay?
Izzy
Response:IMO
MDOA began with the human heart (fallen) which is
no different now than at the founding of your nation
The hedonism of the '60's was no more significant
that the hedonism of the 20's
Women's Lib was precipitated, in part, by the
treatment of women by society in general and, in part, by the
church
Abortion 'rights':no disagreement
Anti-war movement was legitimate. One needs to
recognize that there exist legitimate arguments, by believers, against as well
as for that war (or any war including Iraq).
During your Civil War, both sides had Generals and
enlisted men who read their Bibles and, prayed daily. There Bibles
o'plenty.
Christians throughout history have demonstrated
themselves to be no more effective in running government than
others.
Christian 'teaching' doesn't even enable TTers to
speak in a civil manner to one another.
Christians throughout history have not only
demonstrated virulent racism all over the globe but also anti-semiticism of an
equal sort. Do you know the story of Ruby Bridges? Do you know who comprised the
sign waving, epithet hurling crowds who threatened her life? It was Christians
in Russia, Spain, Europe who willingly killed Jews by the millions.
Slavery was a mixed bag. Many christians were for
it and, used the scriptures to support their position.
I'm going to leave off at this point.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: June 16, 2005 07:58
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Hill
Cumorah
IMO the moral deterioration of America began with the
hedonism of the '60's. It involved Women's Lib, the anti-war movement,
and abortion "rights" being legalized. In short, the liberals took over
the country due to hedonism and rebellion against tradition and
authority. When I was in elementary school in the 50's the Gideon's were
welcomed to give out little New Testaments to each child--that was my only
Bible. Today they would be imprisoned. We have fallen a long
way. BTW, "public schools" began in the infancy of America, and in them
the Bible was the main textbook. It was expected that public schools
would teach Christianity and the 3 R's. It was that way until the
60's. I have an old copy of a home economics book for "young ladies" of
high school age in which the preface notes the lack of proper Christian
teaching in the schools was deplorable!
The civil rights movement was not a reaction to
religion and the church. True followers of Christ were never
were racists. Churches simply reflected the more's of those within their
walls. The southerners thought God was on their side in the separation
of the races. The Northern churches never thought such a thing. A
major pro-civil rights activist during the civil war was a Presbyterian man
who owned a newspaper in Alton, Illinois, just across the river from St.
Louis. He wrote against slavery in his editorials, and he was greatly
persecuted. I can't remember his name at the moment. But there
were many such devoted Christian activists. Most were just quietly living
decent lives, as it should be. It is a false belief to think that
Christians were responsible for racism. But there were plenty who were
wrong on that account--just like there are plenty of liberal Christians today
who are wrong. Time will tell. BTW, slavery was never considered a
sin in the Bible--but that's a whole different topic. It was one way to
make a living for many throughout human history, including Biblical
times. Today we are often slaves to the "Corporation" whoever our
employee is, or to the "welfare" state. But hatred or mistreatment of
anyone for any reason, including race, is a sin. Izzy
I have been some critical of the seeker friendly movement in this
country. Currently, I am into the fifth hour of a graduate
course entitled Empowering the Church for First world
Re-evangelism. The two professors who recorded this
course have spent the time laying a foundation for this "re-evangelism "
(to be explained at a later date) including a review of the societal and cultural changes that have occurred in
this country over the past 50 years and beyond. For 170 years
years, this country was "Christian" in a legal sense of the word.
Our schools reflected that influence. Our founding documents
reflected that influence. Even many of the laws of the land were
reflective of the Christian power structure of this country. I do
not know when all this began to
change. Perhaps it was with the institution of the "public"
school. &nbs p; The rejection of prohibition played more of a role
than most will give it credit.
And society's negative review of just where "religion" had gotten us in those
days played no small role, as well. The civil war was as much
a holy war as it was about states rights. the KKK was strongest in the religious South .... a circumstance that
wedded ignorance to religion by many who did not live in the
South. It was, in fact, my generation that
rejected Southern born intolerance and supported radical changes in
the culture. The death of the three voting rights workers in
Mississippi in '64 was the single event that did me in with regard to any
romantic view of the southern "mentality" reg arding human rights and
considerations. And so things have changed
....... a rebellion against all that was unfair or intrusive
caused by "religion. cultural Christianity was not the only
culprit, but it was a seen as a major villain. The days when we can force
people to live the kind of lives only the Spirit can mandate are coming to an
end --- not quickly enough. The church will actually have to
depend upon its devotion to the feeding of the thousands, the actual
proclamation of the good news to those who are so in need of it, and a
vital and dynamic explaining of God's intent to those who have no frame
of reference with which to understand. What we see as an erosion of
Christian values and faith is probably a good thing. Just as many people
today, in this country, avow a faith in God while fewer are attending
"church."
It is safe to say that in today's cultural, Christ would draw no
greater a crowd than Benny Hinn or Billy
Graham. His personal ministry accomplished a number of things that
set the stage for the work of ministry in those who would follow Him. And that ministry is
given new meaning in the seeker-friendly churches. It would
be a sorrowful mistake to conclude that the seek-friendly ministry is
the only vital presentation in town. Much of what is seen as
"traditional" still has value in an evangelical sense of the word, no
doubt. but we need to challenge our holy
imaginations to deal with problem of sharing the gospel in a
changing world ---- a world that grows more intolerant
each day. Satan is not a God -- He has no
real and lasting powers. If some of this cultural change is the
result of his influence,& nbsp; it rises to the level aof a mere challenge. God is great
than Satan ----- heck, WE are greater than Satan
(with the power of the indwelling God,) in
a world that is being reconciled to
Him.
JD
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