What if NONE of us have a thoroughly accurate picture of Jesus (a possibility with a high degree of probability, I think) would that mean there is no Jesus at all? !!! I mean, if the True Christ only exists in our accurate defining of Him -- what then? Can Dave have the wrong teaching and the right Christ or does Christ only exist for those who think correctly?
JD
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Perry Locke <cpl2602@hotmail.com>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:02:37 -0700
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Belief
Dave,
I think you are right. You are entitled to your jesus, and the onus is on us to prove him to not be the same as our Jesus. I feel we have done that. Repeatedly. But, you do not accept our evidence, and I suppose short of having a vision, you never will.
You have not said our Jesus is a false jesus because, since you say you beleive in the same Jesus we believe in, that would be like shooting yourself in the foot.
Perry
>From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Belief >Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:55:30 -0700
>
>DAVEH: Logically, the onus is not upon me to define the Jesus I believe >in, but rather it is on the person who suggests I don't believe in Jesus. >FTR....I have not said that the Jesus Kevin, you Perry or any other TTer >believes in is a false Jesus.
>
>Lance Muir wrote:
>
>>DaveH says "Kevin, I believe in Jesus." IFF we are going to engage in a >>conversation that entails reality, then we have to continue to build upon >>that which has been said previously.According to you THE JESUS TO BE >>BELIEVED IN IS MOST FULLY AND ACCURATELY DESCRIBED WITHIN MORMON TEACHING. >>Is this so? The Jesus believed in by Kevin, Perry, Lance et al is a false >>Jesus. Is this not also so? (unwieldy but, you get my point)What, IYO, are >>the eternal consequenses for non-Mormons? Mr. Moderator:Please grant >>DaveH the opportunity of fully answering and, explaining.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Dave Hansen <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> *To:* [email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>> *Sent:* June 19, 2005 23:02
>> *Subject:* Re: [TruthTalk] Belief
>>
>> DAVEH: FTR Kevin, I believe in Jesus. Therefore can we conclude
>> that you've made the judgment rather than God?
>>
>> Kevin Deegan wrote:
>>
>>> He will!
>>> *He Has!*
>>> *JN 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that
>>> believeth not is condemned already*
>>>
>>> */Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:
>>>
>>> DAVEH: I fully understand that, Perry. But I'd feel more
>>> comfortable
>>> letting God make that judgment than you.
>>>
>>> Charles Perry Locke wrote:
>>>
>>> > Dav id,
>>> >
>>> > Romans 10:9,10 : That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth
>>> the Lord
>>> > Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath
>>> raised him from
>>> > the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man
>>> believeth unto
>>> > righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto
>>> salvation.
>>> >
>>> > But, as I have stated before, the right jesus and right god
>>> must be
>>> > at the center of one's faith. I am not just harassing you,
>>> Dave, I
>>> > honestly do believe that the mormons worship false gods.
>>> >
>>> > Perry
>>> >
>>> >> From: Dave Hansen
>>> >> Reply-To: [email protected]
>>> >> To: [email protected]
>>> >> Subject: [TruthTalk] Belief
>>> >> Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 00:16:42 -0700
>>> >>
>>> >> DAVEH: Yeah........Pretty quiet on TT tonight..
>>> >>
>>> >> Do you believe that those who believe in Jesus are saved,
>>> as I've
>>> >> heard many Christians proclaim? If belief is inadequate,
>>> what else
>>> >> is needed, Per ry?
>>> >>
>>> >> Charles Perry Locke wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Dave, this is great. Midnight, just me and you on TT,
>>> mano y mano,
>>> >>> so to speak :-)
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I guess I am biased in that way, because both you and
>>> Blaine admit
>>> >>> to following the christ and jesus of mormonism, so it is
>>> my opinion
>>> >>> that you are lost since I believe that they are false
>>> gods. If I
>>> >>> thought that you guys were saved in spite of the
>>> teachings of the&nbs p;
>>> >>> mormon church I would not be spending so much time
>>> exposing the
>>> >>> false nature of the mormon church to you.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> But, the bottom line is that God makes that ultimate
>>> decision, not I.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Perry
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>>
>
>--
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Dave Hansen
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://www.langlitz.com
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>If you wish to receive
>things I find interesting,
>I maintain six email lists...
>JOKESTER, OP INIONS, LDS,
>STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
>
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
I think you are right. You are entitled to your jesus, and the onus is on us to prove him to not be the same as our Jesus. I feel we have done that. Repeatedly. But, you do not accept our evidence, and I suppose short of having a vision, you never will.
You have not said our Jesus is a false jesus because, since you say you beleive in the same Jesus we believe in, that would be like shooting yourself in the foot.
Perry
>From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Belief >Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:55:30 -0700
>
>DAVEH: Logically, the onus is not upon me to define the Jesus I believe >in, but rather it is on the person who suggests I don't believe in Jesus. >FTR....I have not said that the Jesus Kevin, you Perry or any other TTer >believes in is a false Jesus.
>
>Lance Muir wrote:
>
>>DaveH says "Kevin, I believe in Jesus." IFF we are going to engage in a >>conversation that entails reality, then we have to continue to build upon >>that which has been said previously.According to you THE JESUS TO BE >>BELIEVED IN IS MOST FULLY AND ACCURATELY DESCRIBED WITHIN MORMON TEACHING. >>Is this so? The Jesus believed in by Kevin, Perry, Lance et al is a false >>Jesus. Is this not also so? (unwieldy but, you get my point)What, IYO, are >>the eternal consequenses for non-Mormons? Mr. Moderator:Please grant >>DaveH the opportunity of fully answering and, explaining.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Dave Hansen <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> *To:* [email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>> *Sent:* June 19, 2005 23:02
>> *Subject:* Re: [TruthTalk] Belief
>>
>> DAVEH: FTR Kevin, I believe in Jesus. Therefore can we conclude
>> that you've made the judgment rather than God?
>>
>> Kevin Deegan wrote:
>>
>>> He will!
>>> *He Has!*
>>> *JN 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that
>>> believeth not is condemned already*
>>>
>>> */Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:
>>>
>>> DAVEH: I fully understand that, Perry. But I'd feel more
>>> comfortable
>>> letting God make that judgment than you.
>>>
>>> Charles Perry Locke wrote:
>>>
>>> > Dav id,
>>> >
>>> > Romans 10:9,10 : That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth
>>> the Lord
>>> > Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath
>>> raised him from
>>> > the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man
>>> believeth unto
>>> > righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto
>>> salvation.
>>> >
>>> > But, as I have stated before, the right jesus and right god
>>> must be
>>> > at the center of one's faith. I am not just harassing you,
>>> Dave, I
>>> > honestly do believe that the mormons worship false gods.
>>> >
>>> > Perry
>>> >
>>> >> From: Dave Hansen
>>> >> Reply-To: [email protected]
>>> >> To: [email protected]
>>> >> Subject: [TruthTalk] Belief
>>> >> Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 00:16:42 -0700
>>> >>
>>> >> DAVEH: Yeah........Pretty quiet on TT tonight..
>>> >>
>>> >> Do you believe that those who believe in Jesus are saved,
>>> as I've
>>> >> heard many Christians proclaim? If belief is inadequate,
>>> what else
>>> >> is needed, Per ry?
>>> >>
>>> >> Charles Perry Locke wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Dave, this is great. Midnight, just me and you on TT,
>>> mano y mano,
>>> >>> so to speak :-)
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I guess I am biased in that way, because both you and
>>> Blaine admit
>>> >>> to following the christ and jesus of mormonism, so it is
>>> my opinion
>>> >>> that you are lost since I believe that they are false
>>> gods. If I
>>> >>> thought that you guys were saved in spite of the
>>> teachings of the&nbs p;
>>> >>> mormon church I would not be spending so much time
>>> exposing the
>>> >>> false nature of the mormon church to you.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> But, the bottom line is that God makes that ultimate
>>> decision, not I.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Perry
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>>
>
>--
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Dave Hansen
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://www.langlitz.com
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>If you wish to receive
>things I find interesting,
>I maintain six email lists...
>JOKESTER, OP INIONS, LDS,
>STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
>
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
