Terry wrote: > I am teaching nothing. I am giving my opinion. I understand the humility here, Terry, and I don't want to split hairs on this, but your opinion certainly can be taken to be teaching.
Terry wrote: > I have no argument with what jesus said in chapter > five, but keep in mind that He was speaking to people > still under the law. Not exactly right. Nobody under law is in the kingdom of heaven, and he is speaking about those in the kingdom of heaven. I think we agree that righteousness does not come from the law. Terry wrote: > At that time, it had not been fulfilled. And it is still not fulfilled. Jesus said that the law would continue until heaven and earth passed away. Has heaven and earth passed away? No. We are no longer UNDER law, but the law has not been done away. Important distinction. Man's covenant under law is what has changed, not the law per se. The law and grace are partners in the sense that they are both after the same goal. The law points the way, but grace is the means by which we get there. Terry wrote: > He spoke of those who kept the least and those who did > not keep the least. He said nothing about those who were > not under the law, the Gentiles. On the contrary, he said EVERYTHING about those who were not under law. The entire message of Matthew 5 cannot be heard by anyone under law. It would be too heavy and too grevious. Those under the law could not hear "thou shalt not covet" and "thou shat not commit adultery." Do you think they could now hear "thou shalt not call your brother a moran" and "thou shalt not look to lust after women"? Except for Jesus Christ himself, the greatest ones who were under law were who? They were the scribes (scholars) and the Pharisees. And Jesus makes it clear that he was not talking about them, because he said, "except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." Those under the law were not in the kingdom of heaven. Not even John the Baptist. Matthew 11:11-13 (11) Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. (12) And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. (13) For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. People were indeed entering into the kingdom of God at the time when Jesus taught Matthew 5. There were those present who were under law when he taught, but his message was primarily for those who were getting out from being under law and to being under Christ. Whether they understood this or not, does not matter. This is what was happening. Terry wrote: > Please explain what I have said that is contrary > to the teachings of Christ. Terry, you wrote: > When God gave Moses the law, He knew that > it could not be kept. It was an impossible goal. > Something to strive for, but never attainable. > I see the command to be perfect in the same light. > We strive to be perfect. Some come closer than > others, but we all come short. It is an impossible > goal. God knows that. It is to show us our > shortcomings, our need for a Savior, who was > perfect and took our place. Jesus teaches us to be perfect, and he also provides the way to do that. You say that it is impossible. Paul teaches in the name of Jesus Christ: 1 Corinthians 10:13 (13) There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. Jesus teaches: Matthew 5:6 (6) Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Yet your words controvert this, saying that it is impossible. Jesus commands people to "go and sin no more." He meant it. You say, "sorry, but Jesus knew it was an impossible command." Furthermore, you cast the teachings of Christ concerning perfection in the same light as the law. You present the idea that the law and grace are no different in regards to accomplishing righteousness within us. Under both covenants, you express the idea that everyone falls short. Whether in Christ or not, nobody actually walks in the righteousness that Christ walked in, according to your opinion. Terry, you wrote: > We all have sinned and come short, and hard as > we try to live the perfect life, we ain't gonna do it > if you define sin the way it was meant to be defined. This is a hopeless and faithless message, contrary to what Jesus taught in Matthew 5, where he leads us to the following statement: Matthew 5:48 (48) Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Consider some other translations of this passage: (ALT) "Therefore, _you*_ will be perfect, just as your* Father, the [One] in the heavens, is perfect. (ASV) Ye therefore shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (BBE) Be then complete in righteousness, even as your Father in heaven is complete. (CEV) But you must always act like your Father in heaven. (DRB) Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect. (EMTV) You therefore be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect. (ESV) You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (GNB) You must be perfect---just as your Father in heaven is perfect. (GW) That is why you must be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect. (HCSB) Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (HNV) Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect. (ISV) So be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." (LITV) Therefore, you be perfect even as your Father in Heaven is perfect. (MRC) "Therefore you be brought to goal, just as your Heavenly Father has been at the goal. (MSG) "In a word, what I'm saying is, Grow up. You're kingdom subjects. Now live like it. Live out your God-created identity. Live generously and graciously toward others, the way God lives toward you. (Murdock) Be ye therefore perfect; even as your Father who is in heaven is perfect. (NASB) "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (WEB) Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect. (Webster) Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father who is in heaven is perfect. (WNT) You however are to be complete in goodness, as your Heavenly Father is complete. (YLT) ye shall therefore be perfect, as your Father who is in the heavens is perfect. I read in the words of Jesus a message of hope and faith, that we can, must, and will walk in love toward God and neighbor. Unfortunately, I find this message of Jesus controverted by your message in that you say such is impossible. You take away the hope of this good news. We might not be able to be perfect in knowledge, but we can be perfect in love. Peace be with you. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
