Terry wrote: > Still those who were being spoken to were under > the law, as all Jews were, including Jesus, until the > moment that the veil in the temple was rent.
Coming out from the law and coming under Christ was happening before the veil in the temple was rent. I have already given you some Scriptures that prove this, but perhaps we have a different understanding of terms. Do you agree that those in the kingdom of heaven, even the least in the kingdom, are not under law but under grace? If so, the passages I offered should make sense (e.g., Mat. 11:11 ff.) but if not, we need to talk about that some more. Terry wrote: > Look again. Had the law not been fulfilled, one jot > or tittle would not have passed away, but Christ fulfilled > the law, morally, sacrificially, and legally. He is the only > one who ever did, but it has been fulfilled, and for every > one who trusts in Christ finished work, it is fullfilled. > No born again believer is under it today. You seem to be reading something into the text that is not there. Following is the passage: Matthew 5:17-18 (17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. I see the following points established in this passage: 1. Jesus did not come to destroy the law. 2. Jesus came to fulfill the law. 3. Fulfilling the law is not destroying the law. 4. The law will continue even after Jesus fulfills the law. 5. Not one jot or one tittle will pass from the law until heaven and earth pass. Terry wrote: > God is not the problem. Temptation is not the > problem. The flesh is the problem. He makes > a way to escape. We do not always take advantage > of that way. This is the opinion of man, not the teaching of Christ. Please keep this in perspective. Try and present this teaching from the context of Scripture and you will soon see that it is not the testimony of Scripture that children of God do not always take advantage of the way out of sin. Please seriously consider the following testimony of John and contrast it with your testimony written above, that we do not always take advantage of that way. Don't look at your experience, but look at the testimony of God. 1 John 3:5-10 (5) And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. (6) Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. (7) Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. (8) He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. (9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (10) In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. Terry wrote: > I am saying that I and many others have tried > to be flawless and none of us are there. > If I must be flawless to be pleasing to God, > I might as well give up now and go back to getting > drunk, getting laid and getting in fights as was once > my pattern, at least on Saturday nights. I no longer > want that. I want to follow Christ, and I am going > to continue to do that to the best of my ability, but > though I follow Him, I am not yet like Him, and do > not expect to be. There has only been one sinless > man, and neither you or I are going to be the second. Terry, you are more perfect than you can possibly imagine. Your only hindrance is not expecting Christ to do perfectly what he has promised to do for you. You have it right in this vein, and that is that those who TRY to be flawless will never obtain. The key is in not trying, but in resting in Christ. When God considers you righteous, that is not a little thing. The God who said, "let there be light" is the same God that saw light come into existence when he so considered it. The God who considered Abraham to be a man of many nations caused it to be when he considered it to be so. When God considers us righteous, it becomes a reality within us, and we cannot make the righteousness that is obtained this way a sub-category of righteousness that is below his righteousness. We are the righteousness of God. When we belittle the righteousness that we have become through faith, we belittle God's righteousness. Terry wrote: > Being considered righteous by God makes us > righteous in His sight. Don't get the idea that you > have achieved perfection. It is his consideration, > not your ability to live a sinless life that will save you. I have no problem with this paragraph at all. It is the former things, which belittles the righteousness that we obtain apart from our own efforts, that I have problems with. When God considers us righteous, it is not just a positional thing. We are created for good works. Following is one of my favorite passages in the Bible, but too many people leave off verse 10 when they quote it. I hope in the context of our discussion, you will consider it afresh. Ephesians 2:8-10 (8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. (10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. If God has ordained us to walk in good works, who are we to say it is impossible and that nobody but Jesus has done it? Peace be with you. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
