I do believe there are believers in the Catholic Church, but I do not believe this speaks to the church's credit. It always seemed to me that the Spirit chose to dwell in some Catholic individuals IN SPITE of the RCC.
My roommate last year was Catholic, and I believe she is my sister in Christ. She loves Jesus with the tender heart of the apostle John, and has the discernment to know what is righteous in this world and what is ungodly. But I can see how the RCC has served to hinder her growth in the Lord. Their clergy/laity lines are devastating to one's faith, besides the bad doctrine and praying to Mary stuff. But, Debbie, I appriciate your stance on this. I've had to learn a lot about communicating with Catholics. On one hand, I do believe they are a member of a false religion, but on the other hand, I'm not sure they should be rebuked as a homosexual or feminist should be rebuked. Blessings --- Debbie Sawczak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The same way you recognize it in any other > Christian. Of course, Kevin, if you really are > certain that there is not a single believer in the > Catholic church, then I suppose the Spirit of God is > not there, at least not in the way I'm talking > about. > > Debbie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kevin Deegan > To: [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 12:48 PM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] All believers are ONE IN > CHRIST > > > How does this spirit manifest itself? > How can I know that it is the Spirit of God? > > Debbie Sawczak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well, for one thing, he is present in individual > Catholic believers. > > Debbie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kevin Deegan > To: [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 7:57 AM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] All believers are ONE > IN CHRIST > > > Can you tell us in what ways the spirit is > present? > > Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > NO CHURCH, NOT EVEN A HOUSE CHURCH, > DAVID/IZ, CAN AVOID TRADITIONS LIKE THE PLAGUE. > Where the two of you meet to worship, teach, learn > etc. is replete with tradition. If it is not today > then, it will be tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. > > I say again that the Spirit of God is very > much present within the RCC. The Spirit is also > present at the Vatican. > > > > ---- Original Message ----- > From: ShieldsFamily > To: [email protected] > Sent: July 06, 2005 17:58 > Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] All believers are > ONE IN CHRIST > > > The "baggage" is all RCC, my dear. > Definitely there are traditions which overrule > scripture in other churches as well, though not as > many or piled as deep. The consequence being that > I'm total non-denominational. Our church avoids > "traditions" like the proverbial "plague". If it > starts feeling like something "we've always done > that way" we change it! I'm actually not against > traditions, which can be good at times. I only > object to traditions that become false doctrine by > contradicting clear scriptural teaching. iz > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Debbie Sawczak > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 3:35 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] All believers are > ONE IN CHRIST > > > > Thank you, my dear, you have just > confirmed all the baggage I said you were attaching > to the word, and have also (at the very end) > answered my question with what can be pretty easily > construed as a NO. > > > > BTW, I have had a completely different > experience of the Catholic church, its tradition and > liturgy. > > > > Do you think there are any "traditions" > (in your sense) or idols or other clutter obscuring > the view in our Bible-believing > churches/congregations? Do you think there might be > some you aren't aware of? What will be the > consequence? Not a rhetorical or loaded question, I > ask sincerely. > > > > Debbie > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: ShieldsFamily > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 5:06 PM > > Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] All believers > are ONE IN CHRIST > > > > Debbie, having come out of a RCC family > background, you can't distract me with switching > word meanings. I happen to know that in the RCC > "Tradition" (with a capital T) carries much more > weight than scripture. I have been told so by the > powers that be more than once. I even had one > hard-core relative shove the Bible in my face and > scream, "See this book? It means NOTHING! Got that > NOTHING!!!!" Adultery, drunkenness, and lying were > standard fare as long as you went to confession once > in a while and did your "penance" (talk about > works-salavationists!). It's amazing that I ever > had a burning desire to know God, as I absolutely > hated the "Mass" (ie: re-crucifixion of Christ to > draw a crowd), and all the smoke and bells and robes > and darkness and rules and bowing and chanting, and > Latin mumbo-jumbo. Talk about a voodoo ritual! It > was haunting to a little girl who could remember > once being in a sweet little country church with her > Grandmother. > > > > Therefore, when scripture says we are to > have no idols before God, that is overruled by the > Tradition which says to bow to statutes and pray to > Mary and the "Saints", using "holy" water, beads, > relics, etc. Or when scripture says that the > overseer of a church is to be the husband of one > wife, RCC Tradition says it is much better that he > be celibate. Or when scripture says we are all > saints and priests, the RCC Tradition says we need > "Priests" to intercede for us, and only the "Church > Catholic" decides who is "canonized". I could go on > and on, but you get the drift. That is why the RCC > is absolute anathema to me as a Bible Believer. I > realize that you can't have both. I pity those who > have been indoctrinated by it without ever getting a > glimpse of the real thing. Iz > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Debbie Sawczak > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 2:25 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] All believers > are ONE IN CHRIST > > > > MAN you guys get distracted by your own > baggage attached to words! Certain words to you are > just like red flags to a bull, regardless of what > they mean in the context. (It reminds me of my > 10-year-old son, who cannot abide the number 55.) > OK, instead of saying "part of the Christian > tradition", how about we say "part of the Christian > community"? But we have already heard the answer, I > think. The entire RCC is outside the fold, and any > sheep who don't get out of there will find > themselves on the way up the ramp to the abattoir. I > get it. > > > > Debbie > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
