As to paragraph #1, why wouldn't it apply equally to the DMC (David Miller Church). Ahhh Lance, you overstate the case, do you not? Well, thanks for asking but, no I do not! It's that 'little leaven' thingy.
As to paragraph #2, surprise me by telling me that you could one day be head of the DMC (David Miller Church). (Female/Male thingy)-comparing this to the clergy/laity distinction. As Forest Gump said 'bad doctrine is as bad doctrine does'. I know of at least two prime examples in the DMC. And Christine, should you one day convert to Catholicism, I have every confidence that, just like Scott Hahn, it'll be the 'rising tide' thingy. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christine Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: July 07, 2005 14:54 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] All believers are ONE IN CHRIST > I do believe there are believers in the Catholic > Church, but I do not believe this speaks to the > church's credit. It always seemed to me that the > Spirit chose to dwell in some Catholic individuals IN > SPITE of the RCC. > > My roommate last year was Catholic, and I believe she > is my sister in Christ. She loves Jesus with the > tender heart of the apostle John, and has the > discernment to know what is righteous in this world > and what is ungodly. But I can see how the RCC has > served to hinder her growth in the Lord. Their > clergy/laity lines are devastating to one's faith, > besides the bad doctrine and praying to Mary stuff. > > But, Debbie, I appriciate your stance on this. I've > had to learn a lot about communicating with Catholics. > On one hand, I do believe they are a member of a false > religion, but on the other hand, I'm not sure they > should be rebuked as a homosexual or feminist should > be rebuked. > > > Blessings > > --- Debbie Sawczak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > The same way you recognize it in any other > > Christian. Of course, Kevin, if you really are > > certain that there is not a single believer in the > > Catholic church, then I suppose the Spirit of God is > > not there, at least not in the way I'm talking > > about. > > > > Debbie > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Kevin Deegan > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 12:48 PM > > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] All believers are ONE IN > > CHRIST > > > > > > How does this spirit manifest itself? > > How can I know that it is the Spirit of God? > > > > Debbie Sawczak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Well, for one thing, he is present in individual > > Catholic believers. > > > > Debbie > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Kevin Deegan > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 7:57 AM > > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] All believers are ONE > > IN CHRIST > > > > > > Can you tell us in what ways the spirit is > > present? > > > > Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > NO CHURCH, NOT EVEN A HOUSE CHURCH, > > DAVID/IZ, CAN AVOID TRADITIONS LIKE THE PLAGUE. > > Where the two of you meet to worship, teach, learn > > etc. is replete with tradition. If it is not today > > then, it will be tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. > > > > I say again that the Spirit of God is very > > much present within the RCC. The Spirit is also > > present at the Vatican. > > > > > > > > ---- Original Message ----- > > From: ShieldsFamily > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: July 06, 2005 17:58 > > Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] All believers are > > ONE IN CHRIST > > > > > > The "baggage" is all RCC, my dear. > > Definitely there are traditions which overrule > > scripture in other churches as well, though not as > > many or piled as deep. The consequence being that > > I'm total non-denominational. Our church avoids > > "traditions" like the proverbial "plague". If it > > starts feeling like something "we've always done > > that way" we change it! I'm actually not against > > traditions, which can be good at times. I only > > object to traditions that become false doctrine by > > contradicting clear scriptural teaching. iz > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > > Of Debbie Sawczak > > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 3:35 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] All believers are > > ONE IN CHRIST > > > > > > > > Thank you, my dear, you have just > > confirmed all the baggage I said you were attaching > > to the word, and have also (at the very end) > > answered my question with what can be pretty easily > > construed as a NO. > > > > > > > > BTW, I have had a completely different > > experience of the Catholic church, its tradition and > > liturgy. > > > > > > > > Do you think there are any "traditions" > > (in your sense) or idols or other clutter obscuring > > the view in our Bible-believing > > churches/congregations? Do you think there might be > > some you aren't aware of? What will be the > > consequence? Not a rhetorical or loaded question, I > > ask sincerely. > > > > > > > > Debbie > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: ShieldsFamily > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 5:06 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] All believers > > are ONE IN CHRIST > > > > > > > > Debbie, having come out of a RCC family > > background, you can't distract me with switching > > word meanings. I happen to know that in the RCC > > "Tradition" (with a capital T) carries much more > > weight than scripture. I have been told so by the > > powers that be more than once. I even had one > > hard-core relative shove the Bible in my face and > > scream, "See this book? It means NOTHING! Got that > > NOTHING!!!!" Adultery, drunkenness, and lying were > > standard fare as long as you went to confession once > > in a while and did your "penance" (talk about > > works-salavationists!). It's amazing that I ever > > had a burning desire to know God, as I absolutely > > hated the "Mass" (ie: re-crucifixion of Christ to > > draw a crowd), and all the smoke and bells and robes > > and darkness and rules and bowing and chanting, and > > Latin mumbo-jumbo. Talk about a voodoo ritual! It > > was haunting to a little girl who could remember > > once being in a sweet little country church with her > > Grandmother. > > > > > > > > Therefore, when scripture says we are to > > have no idols before God, that is overruled by the > > Tradition which says to bow to statutes and pray to > > Mary and the "Saints", using "holy" water, beads, > > relics, etc. Or when scripture says that the > > overseer of a church is to be the husband of one > > wife, RCC Tradition says it is much better that he > > be celibate. Or when scripture says we are all > > saints and priests, the RCC Tradition says we need > > "Priests" to intercede for us, and only the "Church > > Catholic" decides who is "canonized". I could go on > > and on, but you get the drift. That is why the RCC > > is absolute anathema to me as a Bible Believer. I > > realize that you can't have both. I pity those who > > have been indoctrinated by it without ever getting a > > glimpse of the real thing. Iz > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > > Of Debbie Sawczak > > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 2:25 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] All believers > > are ONE IN CHRIST > > > > > > > > MAN you guys get distracted by your own > > baggage attached to words! Certain words to you are > > just like red flags to a bull, regardless of what > > they mean in the context. (It reminds me of my > > 10-year-old son, who cannot abide the number 55.) > > OK, instead of saying "part of the Christian > > tradition", how about we say "part of the Christian > > community"? But we have already heard the answer, I > > think. The entire RCC is outside the fold, and any > > sheep who don't get out of there will find > > themselves on the way up the ramp to the abattoir. I > > get it. > > > > > > > > Debbie > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > === message truncated === > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > ---------- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
