Judy wrote:
... I am curious about you. Why do you have
to have a Jesus born into the same sin, frailty,
and weakness as us?
I don't "have to have it" this way. I learned this from the Scriptures.
I already gave you some passages. Here are a few others:
Hebrews 5:7-9
(7) Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and
supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save
him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
(8) Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he
suffered;
(9) And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto
all them that obey him;
Notice the phrase here, "in the days of his flesh." This was a significant
event. Compare this with the passages I already shared in the last post.
Consider the next one too:
Hebrews 2:9-18
(9) But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the
suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of
God should taste death for every man.
(10) For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things,
in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation
perfect through sufferings.
(11) For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of
one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
(12) Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the
church will I sing praise unto thee.
(13) And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the
children which God hath given me.
(14) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he
also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might
destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
(15) And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime
subject to bondage.
(16) For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him
the seed of Abraham.
(17) Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his
brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things
pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
(18) For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to
succour them that are tempted.
Just read this Scripture, Judy. How can you miss it? Jesus was made a
little lower than the angels, why? To experience mortality! To experience
death. To be made like us in every way. To be made perfect through
sufferings, the same way we are perfected. Look at verse 11, "both he that
sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one." This is the reason
he calls us brethren. He was made just like us. Look at verse 14. He
says, "as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself
likewise took part of the same." The reason given here is the same as in
Romans 8:3 where he says that he was made in the likeness of SINFUL flesh.
That he might have power over the bad aspects of the flesh, which include
death and the law of sin and death that resides in the flesh. Then read
verse 16. How much clearer can he be? He took on him the SEED of Abraham.
His FLESH was descended from the seed of Abraham. There it is right there
in Scripture. Inescapable. Muslims want to reject this view. Jews want to
reject this view. EVEN SOME CHRISTIANS want to reject this view. The idea
of Christ being come in the flesh seems anathema to those who hate the flesh
and see God as far removed from it. What fellowship has light with
darkness? How can God Almighty become flesh like us? Impossible? Sounds
like it, but no, it is a great mystery that one can understand if we press
through to grasp it.
Judy wrote:
Are you also holding to this incarnational Athanasian
concept or is it your background in biology?
No, Judy, I did not get this understanding from Athanasia. I got it from
reading the Bible. I will grant you that my biology background has helped
me tremendously to understand how the flesh is the source of selfish
behavior in ways that probably surpasses the apostle Paul. At the same
time, I am amazed that Paul understood these things as he did without having
the understanding of biology that has been unveiled within our generation.
Regardless of my biology background, these things are understandable without
any of that. The Bible teaches it. That is all we need.
I wonder why you are resistent to the idea. For someone who clearly wants
to stay clear of Roman Catholicism and Calvinism, you buy into it hook,
line, and sinker on this issue. Why? Perhaps it is your desire to make
Jesus unique as a person? Recognizing that he is flesh does not have to
interfere with his uniqueness. He was unique, just as Isaac was unique from
Ishmael. Jesus was God manifest in the flesh, not some alien flesh, not the
flesh of pre-fallen man, but human flesh descended from Abraham and David.
This is what the Bible teaches. If we were to do genetic testing on his
flesh, we would find him related to Mary his mother, and also related to all
the ancestors that Matthew so carefully outlines for us. Why would you find
this difficult to accept? Perhaps you should begin, one by one, to mention
some of your objections. If we can answer your every objection, then maybe
you could consider afresh what the Bible is teaching on this subject.
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
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"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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